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Formulas for angles, arcs and degrees

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    Formulas for angles, arcs and degrees

    To Whom It May Concern,

    I am trying to calculate triangle lengths, degrees and arcs?


    Here are my questions.

    Find attached my drawing that has what we want to achieve in blue.

    Now we get two different calculations of the curvature, but If the observer is higher than the ground level. we will need to calculate one more thing which
    is the tangent line from the observer to the point of tangency. I drew it in the diagram too so you can understand me, it's in blue color.

    Currently, if I change the (Horizon Distance) I get the correct distances I want. However, I would also like to have it where I could Input the (Arc/Curvature Length) and the (Viewpoint Elevation)
    and everything else change accordingly.

    This would allow me to determine the following:

    If I go to Google, it will give me the distance between Michigan and Chicago based on curvature of the earth, not on a Horizon or Horizontal plane, so if I input
    60 miles in (Arc/Curvature Length) I should get the distances that I want. because 60 miles is based on the curvature, not on the horizon distance.
    I think this is the only correct way to measure the curvature.

    Please see the chart and excel file attached.

    If you need anything else, please let me know.

    Awaiting your reply,

    Lonnie

    Heliocentric Model Calculations (7-12-2016).xlsx

    Curvature Chart .pdf

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    Re: Formulas for angles, arcs and degrees

    I am not sure I understand exactly what you are asking for. You say that you are trying to calculate something in blue, but there is a lot of different blue lines and areas in your two pictures, and the blue things are not the same in the two pictures. First suggestion would be to make it clear just what you are having trouble calculating. It might also be helpful to know if your difficulty is trigonometry (I don't know how to calculate that quantity by any method) or Excel (I know how to calculate the quantity by hand, but do not know the Excel functions to perform the same calculation).
    Currently, if I change the (Horizon Distance) I get the correct distances I want. However, I would also like to have it where I could Input the (Arc/Curvature Length) and the (Viewpoint Elevation)
    and everything else change accordingly.
    If I understand what you are trying to do here, I think the easiest way to do this is to have separate copies of the calculation sheet for each desired set of inputs. I often find that the easiest way for me to deal with different input scenarios is to have a copy of the calculation that can be used for each input scenario. You can see how I have done this in my unit circle spreadsheet (http://www.excelforum.com/tips-and-t...han-excel.html ) where I have three different but almost identical spreadsheets. The only difference between the three is the input format for the angle (degrees, radians, or multiples of pi radians).
    Quote Originally Posted by shg
    Mathematics is the native language of the natural world. Just trying to become literate.

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    Re: Formulas for angles, arcs and degrees

    The calculations for the Horizon Model are correct. I need the correct formulas for the Curvature input as well as the Viewpoint input. My desire is to somehow combine these together in the end if possible. If not, three different once will have to work. Is this something you can help me with? The cells the have green text are the cells that require input such as the Google City to City Distance, View Point Elevation and Distance to Horizon are the input areas. The cells that are highlighted in yellow have correct values, but they are input as a value, not a formula. They should be formulas. I hope this makes sense.

    Lonnie

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    Re: Formulas for angles, arcs and degrees

    I'm reasonably certain this will be something we can help you with. How much of the help you need will be with the trig and how much will be the Excel functions? If you already know the trig formulas, we should be able to easily help you enter those formulas into Excel. If you need us to derive the trig formulas for you, that could be different.

    It would probably help to label your pictures. I do not know what "tangent X" is referring to, nor is it obvious which is B or C and so on.

    If you are struggling with the trig part of the problem, I would strongly suggest you spend some time with the unit circle (whether my spreadsheet or whatever source for a description of the trig ratios as they relate to the unit circle). As I indicated in my other thread, I found that understanding the unit circle was a key part of learning and understanding trig. For example, if I understand correctly, the "elevation of object" is the same quantity that Wikipedia labels "exsecant" on its diagram of the unit circle (which is sec(x)-r). Recognizing that should make deriving the formula for "elevation of object" (given angle and radius) fairly straightforward.

    I also note that all of your angles are given in degrees. Because it is a common mistake, you need to recognize that Excel (like all other programming languages) uses angles in radians for its trig functions. If you want your inputs and outputs to be in degrees, recognize that each of your trig functions is going to need to convert between degrees and radians.

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    Re: Formulas for angles, arcs and degrees

    I need the trig formulas input in the excel format and linked to the appropriate cells.

    Thanks for your help,

    Lonnie

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    Re: Formulas for angles, arcs and degrees

    Do you just want the great circle distance between two points on a sphere, or something more complicated?
    Entia non sunt multiplicanda sine necessitate

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    Re: Formulas for angles, arcs and degrees

    I tend to believe that I must first understand the math before working too hard on the programming. Did you understand how I derived the trig formula for the "elevation of object"? If you failed to understand how I connected your "elevation" to the exsecant and then to the secant, then some of the others may not be easy to understand either.
    I would note that arc length is related to angle through the values for a full circle as a proportionality arc/circumference=angle/2pi. That should explain how to get the "degrees of line B" value from city to city distance.
    The purple (2986.30) line is a tangent, as is the yellow (972.70) line. Once you can see those two lines as tangents, it should be easy to see how to calculate the length of the purple line from the angle calculated above. You should also be able to see that the radius+view point elevation is a secant, and can use those values to compute the angle from the inverse cosine function (ACOS()).

    How are we doing so far?

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    Re: Formulas for angles, arcs and degrees

    Dear MrShorty, I believe that we have the formulas in correctly now, but for whatever reason they are not coming out to the exact output desired. If you look to the right of the worksheet, you will see Actual and Correct values. The yellow highlighted ones are not coming out to the exact calculation that they should and I cannot figure out what has to change to make them correct. Can you look over it and see if you can determine what needs to change or if a formula needs to be modified?

    Thank you for your help,

    Lonnie

    Heliocentric Model Calculations (7-14-2016).xlsx

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    Re: Formulas for angles, arcs and degrees

    I note that the error is about 10 ppm at worst. At that level, I would guess that there are some small differences in implementation or in precision level or similar between the two. I expect that both algorithms can be considered correct and that the error is buried in the minor differences in implementation. Further analysis would probably require one to know in intimate detail the algorithms used to compute the values in the correct output column and then compare those to the algorithms used in this spreadsheet, and identify the differences.

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    Re: Formulas for angles, arcs and degrees

    Thank you for your help. You answer seems to make sense. Thank you once again for your help.

    Lonnie

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