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Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

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    Forum Contributor juntjoo's Avatar
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    Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    I feel like I've dealt with this before but can't remember the solution. Anyone know it?

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    use NOW() .

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandy666 View Post
    use NOW() .
    Thanks but that didn't work. I also want the date with the time which is why I chose today()
    Excel 1.0.1 (16.0.14326.20140) (Android)
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    Cool Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    if you didn't change anything in the sheet, here is


    C
    D
    1
    TODAY NOW
    2
    28/05/2018
    28/05/2018 03:51


    now.gif

    for TODAY() format is Date
    for NOW() format is: dd/mm/yyyy hh:mm
    Last edited by sandy666; 05-27-2018 at 11:38 PM.

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    So this is it. There's a circular reference in there but it's worked this far for another purpose even more complicated. Here it's just supposed to return the date and time.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    so you need timestamp
    check here: Timestamp
    iterative calculation should be ON of course
    Last edited by sandy666; 05-27-2018 at 10:44 PM.

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    Thanks. I'll look into that. I guess I need to use the pc version to specify formatting and interations

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    Your sample looks like the basic time stamp formula (with iteration enabled) that I learned on Chandoo's website. I am not sure what is not working. When I open your file and enable iteration, I get today's date (with no time). If I replace TODAY() with NOW(), and reset the time stamps (by clearing and re entering the values in column B), then I get today's date and the current time. Unless I am misunderstanding something, it seems like you should be using the NOW() function rather than TODA() as Sandy666 suggested.
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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    As mentioned, TODAY will only give you the current date, and NO time.

    Now will give you both.

    Also, you should avoid creating/having/using circular errors, they can cause very unexpected things to happen in your WB
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDibbins View Post
    As mentioned, TODAY will only give you the current date, and NO time.

    Now will give you both.

    Also, you should avoid creating/having/using circular errors, they can cause very unexpected things to happen in your WB
    Thanks. Would you agree that timestamp() is the better method?

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    I don't know Mac version but timestamp should work for both: PC & Mac

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    This is still using a circ ref method. As long as you are aware that your file contains it, you should be OK

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    check here for Mac version: TimeStamp for Mac

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandy666 View Post
    check here for Mac version: TimeStamp for Mac
    Thanks. I'm using android actually.I'll access it from my pc
    Last edited by juntjoo; 05-28-2018 at 12:26 AM.

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    So on PC it should work properly also
    maybe add version to your profile, like: android 2007

    edit:
    I did quick check and I didn't find iterative calculation on android version
    afaik now, android doesn't support iterative calculation
    this is a poor version of excel for android, also poor for mac
    Last edited by sandy666; 05-28-2018 at 01:32 AM.

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    Anyway if it works or any version

    If that takes care of your original question, & to say Thanks and for better Motivation, please
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    Thank you.

    or use this sub-forum

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    Last edited by sandy666; 05-28-2018 at 12:35 AM.

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    I will as soon as I figure it out. I gotta sit down with this. Wasn't my original formula a version at least of a "timestamp"? I wonder if nothing was wrong with it other than that I tried using it on android, but I've actually been using it on android. Started on pc then managed to move it to android... BUT JUST noticed along with finding this problem with this particular sheet I'm trying to make, the other sheets I was using that had this formula stopped working also. So I'm thinking the problem here is this mobile version's latest update. Argh!

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    Time incorrect https://imgur.com/a/JwsZJoA

    So I brought it over to my pc and it's doing the same. Do I need to input the format manually somewhere as previously shown? Looks like excel has it correct in the settings.

    click the link to download: https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1xi4I...xport=download

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    Attach the workbook directly here, please.

    Unfortunately the attachment icon doesn't work at the moment, so to attach an Excel file you have to do the following: just before posting, scroll down to Go Advanced and then scroll down to Manage Attachments. Now follow the instructions at the top of that screen.
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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    Okay, got it. Thanks
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    Thanks!

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    Here's what I see.

    It isn't just that the time is midnight, but it is specifically midnight the morning of january 0 1900 (date serial number 0.0000). Somehow, this cell gets the number 0 in it. From there, follow the logic of the formula 1) If b2 is not blank (empty string) [TRUE] then 2) If A2 is blank (empty string again) [FALSE because it contains the value 0] then 3) Return whatever is currently in A2 (the value 0). I also note that the "enable iteration" setting is not embedded in the file so that I get a "circular reference warning" if I do not enable iteration before opening. From past experience, I know that Excel will often default to 0 in circular reference cells when iteration is not enabled. So, my guess is that, somewhere in the file's history, iteration was not enabled, Excel put a 0 value in this cell, and the formula does not include a mechanism for "resetting the loop" when the cell gets a 0 value in it.

    I am uncertain if I can test it for you, but perhaps replace the "blank as empty string" test with "blank as 0" test =IF(B2<>"",IF(A2=0,NOW(),"")). blank="" and blank=0 both return TRUE in EXCEL, but 0="" is FALSE. I assume your time stamp should never return a meaningless Jan 0 1900 date, so a test here for 0 should be just as effective as testing for empty string.

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    Forum Contributor juntjoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrShorty View Post
    Here's what I see.

    It isn't just that the time is midnight, but it is specifically midnight the morning of january 0 1900 (date serial number 0.0000). Somehow, this cell gets the number 0 in it. From there, follow the logic of the formula 1) If b2 is not blank (empty string) [TRUE] then 2) If A2 is blank (empty string again) [FALSE because it contains the value 0] then 3) Return whatever is currently in A2 (the value 0). I also note that the "enable iteration" setting is not embedded in the file so that I get a "circular reference warning" if I do not enable iteration before opening. From past experience, I know that Excel will often default to 0 in circular reference cells when iteration is not enabled. So, my guess is that, somewhere in the file's history, iteration was not enabled, Excel put a 0 value in this cell, and the formula does not include a mechanism for "resetting the loop" when the cell gets a 0 value in it.

    I am uncertain if I can test it for you, but perhaps replace the "blank as empty string" test with "blank as 0" test =IF(B2<>"",IF(A2=0,NOW(),"")). blank="" and blank=0 both return TRUE in EXCEL, but 0="" is FALSE. I assume your time stamp should never return a meaningless Jan 0 1900 date, so a test here for 0 should be just as effective as testing for empty string.
    I got lost 1/3 through your answer. I think you said the formula is counting zero not as nothing and then returning zero translated into zero time. That's one problem. Maybe the only one I care about. I got this from a time stamp guide and it is very similar to my original formula, a time stamp formula someone gave me, but instead of the first if statement it uses counta to count different cells for the first data input. Maybe that would get me proper time?
    How do I get the time to work? Thanks

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    I am not as pessimistic (not quite the right word, but I can't think of what I really want) as Ford in post #9 towards circular references, but one thing I find when using circular logic -- it requires more effort and diligence as the programmer to make sure the circular logic/reference works correctly and reliably. I think you are beginning to understand -- yes it has to do with the 0 is not the same as blank which is not exactly the same as empty string. If you are having trouble understanding why, once A2 gets a 0 value in it, it will always and forever have a 0 value in it, then I recommend that you spend some more time with the formula to understand how that part of the circular logic is working (the Evaluate Formula tool may be useful here).

    A different issue is I don't understand where the 0 value initially comes from. (Parenthetically, I will also note that the edit I suggested is not a final solution either, because 0 is not "" and neither of those is truly blank). The original suggestion from chandoo's website assumes that the cell will always start as blank or empty string, and did not at all explore what to do if the cell ever gets an invalid non-empty string/non-valid value entered into it.

    It also appears that you are doing something a little more complicated with this circular reference timestamp than just "timestamp when the adjacent cell goes from blank to not-blank". You will need to explore what that implies for the overall circular reference timestamp algorithm.

    Working from the simple timestamp in your sample in post 10, I think something like =IF(B2 = "",IF(OR(A2 = "",A2 < 4 0000),NOW(),"")) should work well, and be able to capture the erroneous 0 value that somehow gets into the cell [note that 40000 is the serial number for some day in july 2009 -- I am assuming that you should never see a timestamp earlier than 9 years ago. Adjust this as needed.].

    From there, I am not sure what differences you are running into with your real application and this simplified example. Ultimately it seems to be less about the "time" part of the question that we started with (T O DAY() vs. N OW() vs. other time function) and the circular logic related to when to assign/update/change the value in the cell. As a next step, I would recommend you spend some time with the current formula until you are comfortable understanding why that 0 value gets stuck in the cell, then understand how my latest edit to the formula allows the formula to detect and fix when an unreasonable time stamp value somehow gets entered in the cell.

    [note that I added some spaces to formulas to get past the firewall, which is being stubborn about html code today]

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    Cool Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    what is what
    B
    C
    D
    E
    F
    G
    3
    VALUE
    ISBLANK
    ISNUMBER
    ISTEXT
    ISNONTEXT
    4
    zero (0)
    0
    FALSE
    TRUE
    FALSE
    TRUE
    5
    empty string (="")
    FALSE
    FALSE
    TRUE
    FALSE
    6
    blank
    TRUE
    FALSE
    FALSE
    TRUE

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    Thank you. This is quite a study. Hopefully I'll figure out. If anyone has another idea for a timestamp pls share

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    Let me see if I create a brand new file on my pc and get it going there if it won't work correctly then on my phone...

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    Quote Originally Posted by sandy666 View Post
    what is what
    B
    C
    D
    E
    F
    G
    3
    VALUE
    ISBLANK
    ISNUMBER
    ISTEXT
    ISNONTEXT
    4
    zero (0)
    0
    FALSE
    TRUE
    FALSE
    TRUE
    5
    empty string (="")
    FALSE
    FALSE
    TRUE
    FALSE
    6
    blank
    TRUE
    FALSE
    FALSE
    TRUE
    Thanks. This looks to explain why it's returning 0 but why then would it have ever worked or any "timestamp" formulas you can find guides on? Or maybe there are different ones out there. I've only seen slight variations but they seem to function the same. I'll keep looking

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    it was addition to post#24

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    https://youtu.be/GiHkZx8EsZo

    Maybe this will explain to someone what is wrong. I am stuck myself

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    Here's what I am seeing this time around:

    The first example (up to 1:30) you give at the start of the video shows me that this is part of a table (not quite regular spreadsheet stuff). When I create the same scenario in my copy of Excel (a structured table, then I make an entry that expands the table) I get the same behavior you show. For some reason that I cannot explain, it appears that the act of autoexpanding the table to include the new entry gets a 0 value entered into the time stamp cell. As I noted above, the formula you are using has no provision for what it should do if the time stamp cell is 0, so the 0 value gets perpetuated in perpetuity. This is the same issue I explained in posts 22 and 24. Let me see if I try again to explain:

    1) Bn becomes 0 when table autoexpands (don't know why). Bn=0
    2) next calculate event
    2a) check if there is anything in the columns to the right. There is, so proceed with the "value_if_true" argument
    2b) Check if Bn is empty string. Bn is 0, so this is false. Proceed to "value_if_false" argument which is to return the current value of Bn which is 0. Then go back to 2 for the next calculate event. (which, unless everything in the columns to the right is deleted, will always follow the exact same sequence).

    My suggestion above in 24 was basically to replace step 2b with check if Bn is empty string or 0, Bn is 0, so this is true. Proceed to "value_if_true" argument, which is the TODAY() or NOW() function to return a new time stamp.

    Starting at 1:30, you start a new example where you focus on the formatting. I don't think the formatting is an issue here, but at 1:45ish, I can see a slight change in the time stamp formula that I think explains the introduction of the 0 value. =IF(C2<>"",IF(A2="",NOW(),A2),A2). In other variations of the time stamp, such as when you copy from the previous sheet into this sheet 2:30, when C2 is blank (or ""), you have the formula return "". In this case, you have it return the current value in A2. Assuming this is entered into a blank cell, this will return 0 (just like =A2 will return 0 whenever A2 is truly blank [recall the distinctions noted above between truly blank and 0 and empty string]). I would expect this to work correctly, if the outer "value_if_false" argument is empty string "" like other examples. Again, formatting is not really the issue, since the real problem is the underlying 0 value that gets into the cell and the existing formula has no way to change 0 to now() or today().

    Edit to add (because I posted too soon): Some of the other issues that you show are related to inserting and deleting rows in a structured table. I never use structured tables, so I am not familiar with the quirks of working with them. It seems clear that sometimes, when you add a row to the structured table, this time stamp will get the value 0 introduced to it. Your current formulas have no way to replace a 0 value with a new time stamp. I think you need to work on adding something to the formula (whether my suggestion or something similar) so that it can trap that erroneous 0 value and replace it with a proper time stamp.
    Last edited by MrShorty; 06-03-2018 at 08:15 PM.

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    Thank you mr. Shorty. You seem to have a good understanding of what's going on so I'll be studying lol your response as this is a little complicated for me. And I'll check your previous suggestion. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrShorty View Post
    I am not as pessimistic (not quite the right word, but I can't think of what I really want) as Ford in post #9 towards circular references, but one thing I find when using circular logic -- it requires more effort and diligence as the programmer to make sure the circular logic/reference works correctly and reliably. I think you are beginning to understand -- yes it has to do with the 0 is not the same as blank which is not exactly the same as empty string. If you are having trouble understanding why, once A2 gets a 0 value in it, it will always and forever have a 0 value in it, then I recommend that you spend some more time with the formula to understand how that part of the circular logic is working (the Evaluate Formula tool may be useful here).

    A different issue is I don't understand where the 0 value initially comes from. (Parenthetically, I will also note that the edit I suggested is not a final solution either, because 0 is not "" and neither of those is truly blank). The original suggestion from chandoo's website assumes that the cell will always start as blank or empty string, and did not at all explore what to do if the cell ever gets an invalid non-empty string/non-valid value entered into it.

    It also appears that you are doing something a little more complicated with this circular reference timestamp than just "timestamp when the adjacent cell goes from blank to not-blank". You will need to explore what that implies for the overall circular reference timestamp algorithm.

    Working from the simple timestamp in your sample in post 10, I think something like =IF(B2 = "",IF(OR(A2 = "",A2 < 4 0000),NOW(),"")) should work well, and be able to capture the erroneous 0 value that somehow gets into the cell [note that 40000 is the serial number for some day in july 2009 -- I am assuming that you should never see a timestamp earlier than 9 years ago. Adjust this as needed.].

    From there, I am not sure what differences you are running into with your real application and this simplified example. Ultimately it seems to be less about the "time" part of the question that we started with (T O DAY() vs. N OW() vs. other time function) and the circular logic related to when to assign/update/change the value in the cell. As a next step, I would recommend you spend some time with the current formula until you are comfortable understanding why that 0 value gets stuck in the cell, then understand how my latest edit to the formula allows the formula to detect and fix when an unreasonable time stamp value somehow gets entered in the cell.

    [note that I added some spaces to formulas to get past the firewall, which is being stubborn about html code today]
    That one didnt work either. Returned "false".I also tried if(a2=0... which didnt work either.

    Strange. Someone out there has to have a working timestamp on a sheet.

    Can anyone share one?

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    Re: Today() returning 12:00am rather than actual time

    Okay, solved. If i put the max iterations on the pc at 1, then it works and I can use it on my phone. So just that setting I guess. I read it somewhere. I think what I did wrong somewhere was edit the table on my phone.

    Thanks for helping. Got a better understanding of an important function, a little better at least.
    Last edited by juntjoo; 06-10-2018 at 01:57 AM.

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    Last Post: 08-03-2006, 06:44 AM
  7. [SOLVED] Time formula 0600 = 11:00AM
    By Aashish in forum Excel General
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-24-2005, 01:06 PM

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