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To ALL members - New updated forum rules

  1. #1
    Administrator FDibbins's Avatar
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    To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Hi to all members.

    Forum Admin and Mods have recently updated all forum rules. We hope this has made them simpler to read and to abide by.

    We all understand that not everyone will agree with these rules - no large groups will ever all agree on some things, but all members are still expected to adhere to these.

    My apologies for not doing this yesterday (9/8/2018), but just after I posted, we lost all internet/TV/Phone due to a huge rain storm we had.

    Please leave any comments or questions here, and we will do our best to answer you.

    Thanks to all for all your hard work and patience here

    Admin/Mods

    Read the updated rules here: https://www.excelforum.com/forum-rul...rum-rules.html
    Last edited by AliGW; 09-09-2018 at 01:52 AM. Reason: Link to rules added.
    1. Use code tags for VBA. [code] Your Code [/code] (or use the # button)
    2. If your question is resolved, mark it SOLVED using the thread tools
    3. Click on the star if you think someone helped you

    Regards
    Ford

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    Administrator FDibbins's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Just to keep this visible

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    Forum Expert rorya's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    3 and 10 contradict each other surely? Post links if you cross-post but we'll ban you if you post links to other forums!
    Rory
    Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, at least it's a change of scenery

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    Forum Moderator AliGW's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    These two rules have always co-existed, although you probably didn't notice it before as the rules were so wordy!

    Links to cross-posts are necessary so that helpers can easily check what advice has been given already elsewhere - saves duplication of effort. Any other links to other forums that are NOT for the purpose of identifying cross-posts are not allowed.

    Seems a simple enough distinction to me.
    Ali


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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    The rule about non posting links to "competing" forums is a bit ridiculous and a tad hypocrite.
    So if there is a perfectly good answer to a question on , say MrE, what should be done? Copy paste it in this forum taking all the credit? Not help the OP ?
    Be very, very careful using IFERROR ! It hides ALL errors which is not always what you want to get correct results

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    Forum Guru Glenn Kennedy's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Note D seems to be redundant??

    They're a huge improvement on what went before. Much less wordy. Two comments/questions: Can "formula help needed" really be regarded as a non-compliance with rule 1?? Rule 13... Should it not have been Rule 101? The concept of the Rep Police sounds very Orwellian to me.
    Glenn



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    Forum Moderator dominicb's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn Kennedy View Post
    Note D seems to be redundant??
    Probably, sort of. It's there as a final resort I suppose and also the consequences were put together before the rest of the stuff. If it ever needs to be slotted in against one of them it can be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn Kennedy View Post
    Can "formula help needed" really be regarded as a non-compliance with rule 1??
    I think so (be a non-compliance, that is) - the rule of thumb seems to be "what is acceptable as a Google search", and no-one would ever search for "formula help", unless they wanted to wade though ten gzillion hits looking for what they actually wanted. Even "VLOOKUP help" would be better, or "look up help" if they don't know the correct formula.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn Kennedy View Post
    Rule 13... Should it not have been Rule 101? The concept of the Rep Police sounds very Orwellian to me.
    You're right, it does. And two months ago I would agree with you 100%. Until we had two respected members trading rep points with one another, dozens at a time, more than 2,000 over a period of a few months. When one particular member was asked why, the response was, "well, there's no rule saying you can't". The member was absolutely right, but unfortunately, it's one of the instances where the few exceptions ruin things for the many.

    DominicB
    Please familiarise yourself with the rules before posting. You can find them here.

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    Forum Expert rorya's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by AliGW View Post
    Seems a simple enough distinction to me.
    I'm sure it does as you're a forum moderator and were presumably involved in the discussions. Consider it from the point of view of a new user, and you might see it as contradictory and confusing. Surely not too hard to add a small clarification. (I'd suggest removing the latter part of rule 10 as it's idiotic but suspect I'd still be wasting my breath.)

    Amusing that we could be banned for trying to help someone, but not for simply abusing them.

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    May we have an addendum to rule #4 that states that it does not apply in the Tips and Tutorials forum?

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    Forum Moderator AliGW's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by rorya View Post
    I'm sure it does as you're a forum moderator and were presumably involved in the discussions. Consider it from the point of view of a new user, and you might see it as contradictory and confusing. Surely not too hard to add a small clarification. (I'd suggest removing the latter part of rule 10 as it's idiotic but suspect I'd still be wasting my breath.)

    Amusing that we could be banned for trying to help someone, but not for simply abusing them.
    I am speaking as a member here. It never came up as a contradiction in the discussions as the distinction has always been there, but I take your point - it may need clarifying.

    As for finding rules "idiotic" - you may not agree with all of them, but they are the rules and we must all abide by them. Please be aware that a lot of effort went into these updates on the part of the mods and admins, in particular Ford.

    As for being banned - you are far more likely to be banned for simply abusing someone else than for trying to help them. Let's try to keep things in perspective, please.

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    Forum Guru Kyle123's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    __________
    Last edited by Kyle123; 09-10-2018 at 11:38 AM. Reason: reread the rules

  12. #12
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by AliGW View Post
    I am speaking as a member here.
    You may be, but that doesn't change the fact that you probably have a lot more experience of forums in general and the specific rules here (which, as you note, haven't really changed) than a new user, which was my point.

    As for finding rules "idiotic" - you may not agree with all of them, but they are the rules and we must all abide by them. Please be aware that a lot of effort went into these updates on the part of the mods and admins, in particular Ford.
    I never said anything to the contrary. That doesn't make it any less idiotic that I can't simply provide a link to an existing, relevant answer on another forum, but instead have to waste my time recreating it. That doesn't, as far as I know, have anything to do with these updates, other than the fact that I will apparently now get banned for doing so more than once.

    As for being banned - you are far more likely to be banned for simply abusing someone else than for trying to help them. Let's try to keep things in perspective, please.
    I would have assumed that, but it is absolutely not what the rules state. Being abusive is apparently A & Z (so mod edit and no infraction) whereas posting useful links is A & B, so mod edit and banning. Or are you saying that I can just apply my perspective to the rules?

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Regarding #10 what constitutes as "commercial site"?
    There are a number of sites with very good info, who also sell add-ins. Would they be classified as commercial?

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe Le Mokko View Post
    So if there is a perfectly good answer to a question on , say MrE, ...
    I cannot imagine that is the intent. I have posted links on both forums to the other when the same question was clearly answered there. Nether forum has a monopoly on good answers, and I hope we're not so paranoid that we can't acknowledge it.
    Entia non sunt multiplicanda sine necessitate

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    Forum Moderator dominicb's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluff13 View Post
    ... what constitutes as "commercial site"?
    Quite simply a site with commercial interests.

    However, and you put your finger on this very issue, a site containing free Excel information, hints, tips etc is fair game, even though it may well be a commercial site.

    Again, it's all multi (go on, I'll say it - Fifty) shades of grey If you have a commercial site containing free stuff, then feel free to use it in your signature, or point people to it where relevant. If the site is commercial only (selling add-ins etc) with no free content, then it should really not be referred to unless you see it as the only way to accomplish an end result. We sometimes get members coming along where their very first post is to recommend a commercial site in answer to question. They are likely to be considered spam and earn a ban. If you recommended the same site, it would likely be overlooked because of your post count and general reputation.

    This kind of thing was spelled out in the original rules, but the idea of a rewrite was to make them easier to read and digest, so all the waffle go cut out, leaving just the bare bones, in the hope that new users would be less intimidated by them. And if you ever saw the old rules page, you'll understand exactly what I mean.

    DominicB

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Thanks for that Dominic
    I suspected that was the case, but nice to have the clarification.

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    Forum Moderator AliGW's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by rorya View Post
    I would have assumed that, but it is absolutely not what the rules state. Being abusive is apparently A & Z (so mod edit and no infraction) whereas posting useful links is A & B, so mod edit and banning. Or are you saying that I can just apply my perspective to the rules?
    I will check this, but anyone being abusive and not responding to correction will be banned. Thanks for querying it.

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    Administrator FDibbins's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by rorya View Post
    3 and 10 contradict each other surely? Post links if you cross-post but we'll ban you if you post links to other forums!
    Not quite the same thing.

    1 is advising us that you have asked the same question elsewhere (3), the other is more about advertising other sites to lure members there.

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    Administrator FDibbins's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle123 View Post
    May we have an addendum to rule #4 that states that it does not apply in the Tips and Tutorials forum?
    Kyle, while a member wont get called out for posting something different on an existing thread in T and T, I think that general rule should still apply, otherwise a single thread could end up containing dozens of different topics.

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe Le Mokko View Post
    The rule about non posting links to "competing" forums is a bit ridiculous and a tad hypocrite.
    So if there is a perfectly good answer to a question on , say MrE, what should be done? Copy paste it in this forum taking all the credit? Not help the OP ?
    As with any new things/changes, some adjustment MAY be worthwhile. I do see the merit of pointing to an answer in another forum, but the aim of that rule is, as I said above, to prevent luring members away to join other sites. Most other sites (including MrE) have similar requirements.

    The entire thrust of this update was to make the rules simpler and less "table-thumping" than before. We were trying for short, concise 1-liners so they could be read quickly and easily. Compared to the previous version, some detail was omitted, which may lead to different interpretations. As with any community, you will never get everyone to agree on everything (you cannot please all the people all the time). This has always been the case here, and will continue to be the case. If there is a compelling reason to change anything, that reason will be discussed and considered by the mods/admin

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by dominicb View Post
    ...You're right, it does. And two months ago I would agree with you 100%. Until we had two respected members trading rep points with one another, dozens at a time, more than 2,000 over a period of a few months. When one particular member was asked why, the response was, "well, there's no rule saying you can't". The member was absolutely right, but unfortunately, it's one of the instances where the few exceptions ruin things for the many.

    DominicB
    Just to add to this, the 2 members involved traded 2740 and 2900 points to each other from Jan 18 to mid Jul 18

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by AliGW View Post
    I will check this, but anyone being abusive and not responding to correction will be banned. Thanks for querying it.
    The A needs to be changed to B, I believe that was my error.oversight.

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Thanks, Ford.

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Thanks Ford and all.

    This greatly streamlines the rules and removes the "great wall of text" that gets there before the message. LOL

    No excuses any more for posters not to read the rules.

    Appreciate it.
    Dave

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    Forum Expert rorya's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by FDibbins View Post
    Most other sites (including MrE) have similar requirements.
    No they don't, as far as I'm aware. MrExcel has no such rule (I suspect you're misreading rule 4).

    I do agree though that the rules are a lot easier to read than they used to be!
    Last edited by rorya; 09-11-2018 at 03:04 AM.

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by shg View Post
    I cannot imagine that is the intent. I have posted links on both forums to the other when the same question was clearly answered there. Nether forum has a monopoly on good answers, and I hope we're not so paranoid that we can't acknowledge it.
    But the whole of the rest of this thread seems to suggest that it is - because, you know, it's luring people away It's a blanket "no links to competing sites" statement. Hopefully I'm wrong.

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    I had the same question re: links to other forums. If finally dawned on me how difficult (impossible ?) it would be to write a comprehensive rule to cover so many conditions and gray areas. I just rely on 1.) Am I luring someone away? 2.) Does it give credit where credit is due? 3.) Does it direct OP to a solution. 4.) Do I have enough cred here to dodge a "spankin'" LOL

    In the end I will probably post that link because it is often easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission. (What rule ... there's a rule for that?)

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    Forum Moderator AliGW's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Sorry to point this out, but as a Forum Guru, you should in my opinion be setting an example and not openly ignoring our rules. Anarchic behaviour, however trivial you think it, is at best unhelpful and at worst undermines the authority of those with mod and admin duties here.

    I have no issue at all with your or Rory's questioning the validity of the rule, and I am happy for any rule to be debated and even amended, if necessary, but we must ALL abide by the rules as they stand now.

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    So, just to clarify, we should not post any links to other forums whatsoever?

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    When new laws are passed, the previous penalties should also be "let go"
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Teach me Excel VBA

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by AliGW View Post
    Sorry to point this out, but as a Forum Guru, you should in my opinion be setting an example and not openly ignoring our rules. Anarchic behaviour, however trivial you think it, is at best unhelpful and at worst undermines the authority of those with mod and admin duties here.

    I have no issue at all with your or Rory's questioning the validity of the rule, and I am happy for any rule to be debated and even amended, if necessary, but we must ALL abide by the rules as they stand now.
    Ali far be it to me to suggest such. That was not my intent at all. My humblest apologies if that is how it came across. My point is ... more simply stated ... some rules just can't be written to cover their intent and all situations. It is up to me to use some judgement. If I get it "wrong" (and not willfully so) I will be told. I'll take my licks and move on ... hopefully without infarctions. But if I get one, I'll just have to take it and without feeling like I've been wronged.

    Again my apologies if that came across as anarchic.

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Also, while I'm having a moan, it would be nice if whoever put up that banner notice could check the 'Dismissible' box so that we can get rid of it.

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by ImranBhatti View Post
    When new laws are passed, the previous penalties should also be "let go"
    That infraction has expired.

    I think this is only doable at admin level.

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    What infraction really is?. if a member receives an infraction does this means negative reputation (your earn repute 7 for example, and then you will actually clear your infraction just like Dr. and Cr balance in the bank account?)

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by ImranBhatti View Post
    What infraction really is?
    An infraction is a warning - nothing more. It doesn't affect rep points or anything else.

    Each infraction carries a number of points, usually 2 or 3, and if a user exceeds (I think) 16 points an automatic ban kicks on for 2 weeks.
    The infractions expire after a few weeks, and the points being carried for that infraction go back to zero.

    As far as I am aware, no user has been banned automatically via the infraction system.

    DominicB

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by dominicb View Post
    The infractions expire after a few weeks, and the points being carried for that infraction go back to zero.

    As far as I am aware, no user has been banned automatically via the infraction system.
    Thanks it did not affect.

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    so I started another post (that was closed) because a quick glance (too quick apparently ) I didn't see another thread on the subject so here is my original question...

    I have a clarification question on rule 10.

    10. Do not put links to commercial sites or services or to competing forums in signatures and posts. (A, B)

    So often this post this morning I put a link to another site as a reference to the OP for something I might (?) have found on this forum.

    https://www.excelforum.com/suggestio...ate-sheet.html
    I've referred posters to other sites at times because I thought the information contained was helpful.
    Am I now violating rule 10?
    <><><><>
    I think this has been answered reading through the posts here though I'm not completely clear. So for clarification, could I get a direct answer on what I posted this morning there?

    <><><><>
    furthermore, I'd like to make a suggestion, maybe a sticky about how to return multiple values for one lookup value (since this is quite often requested).
    Thanks.

    <><><><>
    And thanks Dominic for pointing out this already running post as I doubt I'd have looked for it under this forum.
    Last edited by Sam Capricci; 09-11-2018 at 08:34 AM.
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    Forum Guru shg's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    How long do we need to see the banner for the new rules?

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    I aspire to be rather laconic in my rep posts. I do admire other contributors contributions. If I include something to the effect of "nice job" will that exempt me from the exacting penalties or still be considered a frivolous rep?
    If I've helped you, please consider adding to my reputation - just click on the liitle star at the left.

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    No, that's not frivolous - you are rewarding another member for their expertise. You are not just saying "thanks".

  41. #41
    Forum Guru xladept's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Well - the other day I "repped" another Guru with just "Thanks for the lesson" - would that pass muster???

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    Administrator FDibbins's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by rorya View Post
    No they don't, as far as I'm aware. MrExcel has no such rule (I suspect you're misreading rule 4)....
    It gets pretty much covered in rules 2, 4 and 15 there. But that is really besides the point.

    As I have mentioned previously, the "spirit" of the rule is to stop advertising competing sites. Im sure that if any member tried hard enough, they could pick holes in any rules they wanted to.

    The rules where kept short to keep them more easily readable. That meant that much verbiage was omitted. If we were to explain every small nuance of every rule, we would end up with rules even longer and more boring than the previous version..

    If there is a compelling reason to temporarily over-ride a rule for a justifiable reason, that gets agreed to by the mods and admin BEFORE hand, then do be it.

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by xladept View Post
    Well - the other day I "repped" another Guru with just "Thanks for the lesson" - would that pass muster???
    I've often done that and never got called on it. After all they did help someone.

  44. #44
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Sambo kid View Post
    ...I have a clarification question on rule 10.

    I've referred posters to other sites at times because I thought the information contained was helpful.

    I think this has been answered reading through the posts here though I'm not completely clear. So for clarification, could I get a direct answer on what I posted this morning there?...
    The previous version had this by way of explanation...
    13a. Do not put links to commercial sites or services or to competing forums in signatures and posts.[*]Cross promotion of, or links to, other forums which deal with the same subject matter as this forum is prohibited.[*]Links in posts to your own blogs or code site should be directly to the relevant free material on your site that addresses the topic of that thread specifically. [*]Links in signatures should be to the landing page on your site that predominantly presents your free material. Any content that advertises commercial services should be on a page that is accessed from your home page. Do not link directly to your commercial offerings from the forum.[*]Random links to any commercial offering will be removed, possibly with a ban if considered spam. [*]If for some reason you are convinced you should be allowed to link to your commercial services or pages directly, seek permission from the Moderation/Administration team in advance. Do not get your hopes up, but it can't hurt to ask.[/LIST]
    13b. Do not put links to personal sites or services as your sole contribution here on the forum.[*]If the only thing you have to offer, even in the Water Cooler and Tools/Tips sections, is links to your own blogs or personal sites/services, let us respectfully say, "No thank you." This is not meant personally, but the Excel Forum is a community, if you wish to participate substantively within this community, then do so. [*]Posting links to your free tools and tips directly in the threads of our questioners is acceptable if it represents less than 10% of your contributions. Thus, we only expect to see you pointing people to your own free links 1 in 10 posts, if that. [*]Earn your stripes helping directly the way we all do, then the linking for common tasks is natural and acceptable.
    13c. Do not solicit payments in your posts or signatures.[*]This is a free forum, all of your free forum contributions will be offered in this spirit, both in posts and signatures.
    That still applies
    Last edited by FDibbins; 09-11-2018 at 03:36 PM.

  45. #45
    Administrator FDibbins's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by xladept View Post
    Well - the other day I "repped" another Guru with just "Thanks for the lesson" - would that pass muster???
    As Ali pointed out, you gave a rep to someone you justifiably thought deserved it, I have done the same on more than 1 occasion.

    I knew this rule would raise contention, it's SOLE aim is to prevent the debacle we had with 2 respected members giving each other up to 5 reps a day from Jan to Jul this year, to the total of almost 3 000 rep points each. (some comments were just "Good Morning" and "they havnt caught on yet")
    Last edited by FDibbins; 09-11-2018 at 03:36 PM.

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Nebulous to me is the phrasing - "just to say thanks". I think we've got a can or worms here.

    No sense in having power if you can't abuse it - eh???

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Posting links to your free tools and tips directly in the threads of our questioners is acceptable if it represents less than 10% of your contributions. Thus, we only expect to see you pointing people to your own free links 1 in 10 posts, if that.[*]Earn your stripes helping directly the way we all do, then the linking for common tasks is natural and acceptable.
    And I have taken that can be extended to posting links to competing forums. It seems the spirit of the post and poster is what is at issue.

    Do I have that wrong?

  48. #48
    Administrator FDibbins's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by shg View Post
    How long do we need to see the banner for the new rules?
    For maybe a week or so, then it can be dismissed

  49. #49
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Apologies for keep using "Reply with Quotes" but there are so many different discussions going on, this is the only way to keep them together.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlameRetired View Post
    And I have taken that can be extended to posting links to competing forums. It seems the spirit of the post and poster is what is at issue.

    Do I have that wrong?
    Dave, just so that we ALL have clarity on that, I will get back to you soonest with a definitive answer.

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by FDibbins View Post
    Im sure that if any member tried hard enough, they could pick holes in any rules they wanted to.
    I can imagine why youíd think thatís what Iím doing but Iím not. Iím just asking for clarification. The fact that nobody in almost 50 posts has managed to provide a simple Yes you can or No you canít answer seems to suggest that some clarification is required.

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    @ Ford,

    Thank you. I look forward to it.

    Dave

  52. #52
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by rorya View Post
    I can imagine why you’d think that’s what I’m doing but I’m not. I’m just asking for clarification. The fact that nobody in almost 50 posts has managed to provide a simple Yes you can or No you can’t answer seems to suggest that some clarification is required.
    Or perhaps you just dont like (or understand) the answer you have been repeatedly given.

    I will try again, 1 last time.

    If you post your question on another site, you need to provide a link to that thread on the other site.

    You may not post links to competing (or commercial) sites, if your intent is to try and get members here, to sign up there.
    If your intent is to show a SPECIFIC answer to a question, that is not the same as trying to drum up membership to another site.

    I really dont know how much clearer I can be on that.

  53. #53
    Forum Expert Sam Capricci's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Honestly Ford I feel like I was uncertain too and I read all the back and forth on the subjects. So your last post was very clear. Thank You!

  54. #54
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    @ Ford. Thank you. That makes perfect sense.

  55. #55
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Good, Im glad about that, and thanks to all for your patience

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by rorya View Post
    I never said anything to the contrary. That doesn't make it any less idiotic that I can't simply provide a link to an existing, relevant answer on another forum, but instead have to waste my time recreating it. That doesn't, as far as I know, have anything to do with these updates, other than the fact that I will apparently now get banned for doing so more than once.
    Agreed, the concept of taking an answer from another site and posting it here as your own is just wrong, it's plagarism and it doesn't provide good "customer service". Like it or not, there are times when someone will know they've seen the exact answer to a question posted here elsewhere. That answer however may have been part of a big thread which is relevant to the discussion and rather than just post the answer verbatim it would be far better to let people see the discussion that went on.

    Either way, people on here would not be happy if they visited AN Other excel forum to see an answer they had posted here replicated word for word elsewhere without any credit.

    EDIT: Bugger! just seen FDibbins post above which makes this one redundant, move along nothing to see here......
    Last edited by pjwhitfield; 09-12-2018 at 02:46 AM.
    If someone has helped you then please add to their Reputation

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    I have always had an issue with
    6. Do not post to threads where a moderator is addressing a rule violation. (B, C, Z*) and
    C. Moderator should soft-delete posts until rule violation is resolved.

    Don't get me wrong, I understand the reasons why we try to clear up these violations however in a lot of cases, members have spent time writing solutions to then find they cannot publish them. The OP never returns or never fixes the problem and we then end up with a dead thread. That in turn becomes harmful for the site as people following links on google or searching here find a matching question without an answer and assume this site was unable to find a solution.

    Nobody wins

  58. #58
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    PJ, that does not happen that often, and only with a few new members. If they were that keen on getting an answer, they would have complied, instead of buggering off.

  59. #59
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by pjwhitfield View Post
    I have always had an issue with
    6. Do not post to threads where a moderator is addressing a rule violation.
    In addition to what Ford has said, cross-posters are frequent culprits of creating an account at multiple sites and often don't bother to check back to other forums if they've had their question answered elsewhere first. So once a cross-posting notice goes up, if the OP never comes back, the post never gets edited to show links and the question answerers don't waste their time posting an answer that the OP no longer wants.

    DominicB

  60. #60
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Nobody has yet replied to the question "How long is the banner going to be visible?" I would have thought that it should disappear once you have visited the Forum Rules thread.

    Can Mods/Admins view Private Messages? I'm not sure how Rule 8 would be enforced otherwise. I keep my Inbox full, so I can't receive messages, although I do get an email notification that "such-a-body" tried to send me a PM (usually at least one a week from members that I don't know). I'm not sure that note A is applicable to this rule.

    Regarding the multiple reps, I thought that you are not allowed to give consecutive reps to the same person, so those two members who were breaking what is now Rule 13 should have spread a lot of rep around to other members in order to be able to build up 2000+ points each between themselves.

    I think this has been a very good attempt to streamline the rules, so well done to all Mods & Admins who contributed.

    Pete

  61. #61
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    One month??

  62. #62
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Thanks Pete, it was a collaborative effort

    Jerry set the banner, this was his post....
    I've created the banner
    In the ADMIN PANEL it's actually called "Notices"
    I've set this notice to NOT be dismissable, so for now it will be there for all, then later we'll adjust the settings on that Notice so that it will appear to all members once and be dismissible.

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Regarding the multiple reps, I thought that you are not allowed to give consecutive reps to the same person, so those two members who were breaking what is now Rule 13 should have spread a lot of rep around to other members in order to be able to build up 2000+ points each between themselves.
    They did, but they deliberately sought out inactive members to give it to. None of it happened by accident, it was done cynically - we know this because they discussed their MO in their rep exchanges.

  64. #64
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    As an example, they would "chat" back and forth through rep comments...
    "Another good joke, this one made me laugh a lot --- Rep Comments are also a good Chat medium "
    "Hi xxxx, I'm not see(n?)ding points around so I've problem with ease talk by the rep medium, anyway it's possible "

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    Forum Guru shg's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    It's been 10 days -- have we looked at the banner long enough?

  66. #66
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    I suggested a month.... But when I check in on my mobile/cell phone... it does take up a lot of space!!

  67. #67
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Just add
    Please Login or Register  to view this content.
    to your AdBlock filter list
    let Source = #table({"Question","Thread", "User"},{{"Answered","Mark Solved", "Add Reputation"}}) in Source

    If I give you Power Query (Get & Transform Data) code, and you don't know what to do with it, then CLICK HERE

    Walking the tightrope between genius and eejit...

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Olly, that is bliss, thank you.

  69. #69
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    I didnt put it there, and dont how to, so I cant change it at all, sorry guys - but I am trying

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Olly View Post
    Just add
    Please Login or Register  to view this content.
    to your AdBlock filter list
    Don't rat me out on the rep, Olly.

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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by FDibbins View Post
    I didnt put it there, and dont how to, so I cant change it at all, sorry guys - but I am trying
    In the Notices section of the Admin CP, there's a Notices manager. Within that, there should just be a check box to make it dismissible.

  72. #72
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Rory, thanks for that, but I dont see any "notice" section anywhere

  73. #73
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Should be top left on the sidebar, below FAQ?

  74. #74
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Regarding the multiple reps, I thought that you are not allowed to give consecutive reps to the same person, so those two members who were breaking what is now Rule 13 should have spread a lot of rep around to other members in order to be able to build up 2000+ points each between themselves.
    What if the same member helped me for my next thread?. Now should wait for another problem to occur in my work,then a member other than who helped me first time should help me and then I give rep to him then I go back to my second thread and give rep to whom who helped me twice consecutively?

  75. #75
    Administrator FDibbins's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Quote Originally Posted by ImranBhatti View Post
    What if the same member helped me for my next thread?. Now should wait for another problem to occur in my work,then a member other than who helped me first time should help me and then I give rep to him then I go back to my second thread and give rep to whom who helped me twice consecutively?
    I see no problem with this situation, you are not abusing the system and your reps would be rightfully earned. The whole focus of this rule is to prevent abuse.

  76. #76
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Thanks
    Sometimes I give rep to helper for a post in a thread that was not started by myself but if I am facing a same problem and I found a solution in an old post I give rep thinking it is not against the rule. Am I doing right?

  77. #77
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Again, I see no problem with that. I have also given reps in a thread that I had not even posted in, just because the "answer-er" gave a very good solution.

  78. #78
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Thanks for confirming.

  79. #79
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Thanks for checking 1st

  80. #80
    Forum Moderator AliGW's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    To me, it's not a difficult concept: if someone has provided something in the way of a solution or advice that has helped you directly or indirectly, then you can reward that person with rep if you wish to. Any mutual back-scratching just for the hell of it steps beyond the bounds of acceptability.

    In reality, most people will be perfectly sensible about it. The addition of the rule/guidline was in response to the two who felt they could do what they liked simply because there was no rule saying they couln't: it's simply a loophole plug, and anyone using rep points thoughtfully does not need to be worried or offended by it.

  81. #81
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Nice explanation. Ali. If the action is justified, then its all good.

  82. #82
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    First off I'd like to thank all the admin and mods for revising the previously wordy rules. Much easier on the brain now and my tattoo artist will have a far simpler time getting them on the back of my eyelids now that I've settled exclusively on this forum for my 'expertise' giving! (according to my current rank)

    I agree with them all (mostly).

    However, (and isn't there always one of those?!) if rep points are no longer worth the loo roll their painted on, because the days of earning rep points to garner 'guru' status are long behind us (as I understand), what's all the fuss over rep points, and their (alleged) misappropriation, about?

    I like rep points because it closes a mental door on a question asked that I've been able to answer. I neither beat myself up for not getting one, nor do a happy dance whenever I get one by someone that hadn't originally asked the question... Although when AliGW hands them out I do go all blusshy!

    So am I missing something here? Rep points, in the grand scheme of things, mean???????? Nowt! So why all the hoo-ha?

    *drops mic*
    *walks off stage*
    *doesn't pick up a paycheck today (probably)*

    BSB


    EDIT: *Throws flowers (NOT reps) at all those who throw 'flowers' back*
    EDIT2: I'll expect a naughty point (at the very least) and I'll have my driver bring the car round.

  83. #83
    Administrator FDibbins's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    BSB, thanks for the "thanks", the update was long over-due. And yes, not everyone will agree with all of them, but you cant please all the people...

    Regarding rep points, yes, they do (essentially) mean little in the overall scheme of things, but that still doesnt mean they should be abused. They give newer members something to judge responders on (for whatever that is worth), and are a nice way to say thanks to those that have offered time an effort to an OP. I guess you could say they are bragging rights, in a way. Anyway, I like them, and they could also be an incentive to get to where "x" is on the rep list (My targets are shg and TMS lol)

    They are also used to "promote" members up the ladder.

    *picks up mic*
    *puts it on mic stand - sheesh who left this laying around?*
    *adds bonus to BSB's cheque for having the stones to raise these questions*

    edit" *sweeps flowers off stage in case anyone has allergies to pollen*

  84. #84
    Forum Expert BadlySpelledBuoy's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Hi Ford et al,

    Manage to get all those flowers into a vase?? Can't imagine there have been many...

    I wasn't insinuating for a moment that abuse of the rep system was excusable in any way. Far from it.

    "They give newer members something to judge responders on"
    Hmmm..... Short of a few nondescript green dots under a username where is the rep point level shown at all? (Am I missing a fundamental part of the formum interface here?)

    "They are also used to 'promote' members up the ladder."
    I agree, until you get to 'expert' status and then they effectively become defunct.

    I like them [rep points] too, as mentioned before, but to me (who has no hope of ever becoming 'guru') they no longer serve a purpose other than the little smile they give when you've helped someone out and they give you a virtual nod. But I often get that from those that say 'ta' and don't leave reps.

    As for reaching shg and TMS levels of reps (other than me having no idea quite what levels they're on), at least one of them has turned me down for a very specific contest this evening so my feelings are a little hurt....

    Thanks for the added bonus to my cheque. It took no stones to raise the questions, I was just curious. However, could I have that cheque in rep points please? If not, could I have it made payable to the Ronald McDonald Foundation (No joke, they helped me out very much when one of my twins was deathly ill in hospital for around 5 of his first 6 months of life!)

    BSB

    *hands out antihistamine for those suffering ill effects from Ford's over enthusiastic sweeping of pollen*

  85. #85
    Forum Guru shg's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    at least one of them has turned me down for a very specific contest this evening so my feelings are a little hurt....
    Contest ?

  86. #86
    Forum Guru Pete_UK's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    It's gone the middle of November, but the panel at the top of the screen telling us that the Rules have been changed (two months ago) is still visible.

    Any chance this can be dismissed now?

    Pete

  87. #87
    Forum Guru shg's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    See Olly's suggestion in post#67 -- works great.

  88. #88
    Forum Guru Pepe Le Mokko's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Or use uBlock Origin's selector to do it for you

  89. #89
    Forum Moderator AliGW's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Or simply train your brain to unsee it.

  90. #90
    Forum Guru Pete_UK's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Somebody put it there - can't we just get rid of it?

    Pete

  91. #91
    Forum Guru xladept's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    How long must it be there until it is no longer considered to be new?

  92. #92
    Forum Moderator AliGW's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    It's an administrator job, I'm afraid - we'll have to wait until Ford comes along. I can live with it, although it's old news now.

  93. #93
    Administrator FDibbins's Avatar
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Jerry actually added that, I have tried to remove it, but cannot find where to I did ask him, he gave some direction, but I dont see the options he mentioned. I will remove it as soon as I find out how

  94. #94
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    Re: To ALL members - New updated forum rules

    Noted & will follow always.

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