Infractions, seriously?

[Tony Valko]

Whoever came up with this idea:

Infractions 1/0 (0)

Should have their hands amputated.

[Glenn Kennedy]

Sounds like some custom formatting.. But then again, so is amputation??!!

[AliGW]

I was served one myself within about a week of joining, if I remember rightly - can't remember why. It disappeared eventually!

[Glenn Kennedy]

I'm a real goody-goody. None as yet. A few negative reps, mainly from people delighted with their results.... Itchy fingers, probably.

[AliGW]

I don't think I've had any negative rep ... yet.

[Glenn Kennedy]

Do you want some??

[AliGW]

Don't you dare!!!

[Glenn Kennedy]

Scary!!!!!

[AliGW]

Hehehe ...

[Doc.AElstein]

I first noticed negative Reps when I gave one to Kyle by mistake. Oops!
Gave me an idea. To help get over the frustration sometime from unresponsive or ungrateful OPs:
If they give no feedback after a week or so you could give them a negative Rep with the Message like
“ It would be courteous if you gave some feedback when you receive help “
This could be helpful to others helping the OP later: You may not always have time to check through the last posts from an OP, but I noticed just now an OP having a Red point under his name instead of green ones. That is maybe a nice quick indication of a “bad OP”. ( of course I suppose an OP could just re-register to get the slate clean.. )

I do not think I have any –ve Reps. ??
Tried for an infraction or two, ( _ ...A lot of the best people seem to have had them at some point ) .. no joy yet.

Alan

[Glenn Kennedy]

As I said to Ali... Do you want some negative Rep?

Can you sound as scary as her???

[Doc.AElstein]

Can you sound as scary as her???

I doubt it....

[AliGW]

Thanks, boys.

[TMS]

A teacher and a Head of Department no less. That's scary

[Crooza]

I first noticed negative Reps when I gave one to Kyle by mistake. Oops!
Gave me an idea. To help get over the frustration sometime from unresponsive or ungrateful OPs:
If they give no feedback after a week or so you could give them a negative Rep with the Message like
“ It would be courteous if you gave some feedback when you receive help “
This could be helpful to others helping the OP later: You may not always have time to check through the last posts from an OP, but I noticed just now an OP having a Red point under his name instead of green ones. That is maybe a nice quick indication of a “bad OP”. ( of course I suppose an OP could just re-register to get the slate clean.. )

I do not think I have any –ve Reps. ??
Tried for an infraction or two, ( _ ...A lot of the best people seem to have had them at some point ) .. no joy yet.

Alan

I like this idea.

[Doc.AElstein]

I like this idea.

Thanks Crooza
( which idea ? REPrimanding an OP, How to get an infraction, .... or giving Kyle a –ve Rep ? .. Lol ... )

Hope it don’t work like ebay – a vicious circle - give a –ve appraisal and get the same back ! ? –
_..... I know how many +ve Rep points you get from a single given Rep is dependent on the “seniority” of the person giving the Rep..
http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...from-guru.html
-..... if it works the same in reverse, then my idea may still be OK. – risk sacrificing a Rep Point to give a few –ve to a bad OP
_.....
But I think the Rep system could be a bit prone to abuse here, so we probably should not labour the Theme too much. - Maybe really punish the OP, - rather that reprimand an OP,.... - really punish him / her.. Report him/ her to Ali Lol.... ----
_......... ------

A teacher and a Head of Department no less. That's scary

_... Add Female to the list and it is about the scariest thing I can think of. ... sends shivers down my spine._..... I would not like to be the OP sent to Teacher


Alan

(_...Edit: what Bugs me most about the Rep System is your list gets truncated after 100. I only have a few more than a 100, but I find the List a good extra way to referrence quick a Thread to get a code etc that i did. Now i lost a few, but i did find a good alternative way to search quick to a post of mine:
http://www.excelforum.com/tips-and-t...ed-search.html
_...)

[6StringJazzer]

Whoever came up with this idea:

Infractions 1/0 (0)

Should have their hands amputated.

You mean the idea of infractions, or the idea of showing infractions in this manner? I have no idea what all those numbers mean.

[Tony Valko]

Yes, the idea of infractions.

Are we in kindergarten here ?

[Glenn Kennedy]

...and the rather shouty/bossy rule "violation" messages are also a bit OTT.

[6StringJazzer]

I think formal infractions are a reasonable way for admins to track someone who might have consistently anti-social behavior. Let's say someone uses abusive language, and as a Moderator I tell them to cut it out, without infractions I would have no way of knowing that other moderators have seen the same problem 6 times this week, without looking at the member's entire post history.

Don't need to use that information for public shaming, however.

[6StringJazzer]

...and the rather shouty/bossy rule "violation" messages are also a bit OTT.

I would agree they are a little overly aggressive, and all the bold italics and colors don't help.

[Tony Valko]

Let's say someone uses abusive language, and as a Moderator I tell them to cut it out, without infractions I would have no way of knowing that other moderators have seen the same problem 6 times this week, without looking at the member's entire post history.

Don't you guys discuss the behavior of posters in your private forum?

You make a post: Hey, be on the lookout for member ABC. Using offensive language. Link to post.

Any other mods/admins that might see the same behavior will also post.

Member ABC gets a PM warning. If the behavior continues member ABC gets banned.

[shg]

That would be great is there were 100 people that post instead of 10,000, Tony.

[Tony Valko]

And of those 10,000, how many need "monitoring" ? 1 or 2?

[shg]

You should spend a few months as a mod, Tony.

[alansidman]

You should spend a few months as a mod, Tony.

Tony, want to swap with me for a month or so?

[BlindAlley]

I gotz wun infracshun coz I'm speshul

Seriously, how many times have you guys looked at an 'unanswered thread' worked on the issue involved for a few minutes then posted a reply with a suggested solution only to find that your answer is NOW underneath a standard MOD posting which means don't reply to this thread until the OP complies

I don't do it on purpose - honest !!

[6StringJazzer]

Seriously, how many times have you guys looked at an 'unanswered thread' worked on the issue involved for a few minutes then posted a reply with a suggested solution only to find that your answer is NOW underneath a standard MOD posting which means don't reply to this thread until the OP complies

Just a suggestion: Before you hit Submit, hit Preview and review the thread. That will show you any posts that were made while you were writing your reply.

[TMS]

... how many times have you guys looked at an 'unanswered thread' worked on the issue involved for a few minutes then posted a reply with a suggested solution only to find that your answer is NOW underneath a standard MOD posting which means don't reply to this thread until the OP complies

For me, about 5 times. And one for not using Code Tags

[alansidman]

@BlindAlley If this happens and I notice it, I will generally, hide your response and let the OP know the issue. I will look at the time frame of your response compared to my notifying the OP of his issue. If I ever give you an infraction because of this, PM me as I probably was having a senior moment and missed the comparison of times. I will then fix the infraction. I would like to think that all moderators take this into consideration. If the time has elapsed significantly, then that is a different story.

[Tony Valko]

You should spend a few months as a mod, Tony.

Tony, want to swap with me for a month or so?

No thanks!

I don't fit in with the "moderation philosophy" of the current administration.

[Tony Valko]

I don't do it on purpose - honest !!

That is the key to the general approach of moderation.

Some mods/admins think people do things ON PURPOSE.

Like, someone uses the thread title: Need help!

They must have/should have known it was against forum rules so they used that thread title ON PURPOSE.

Get a grip!

[BlindAlley]

@BlindAlley If this happens and I notice it, I will generally, hide your response and let the OP know the issue. I will look at the time frame of your response compared to my notifying the OP of his issue. If I ever give you an infraction because of this, PM me as I probably was having a senior moment and missed the comparison of times. I will then fix the infraction. I would like to think that all moderators take this into consideration. If the time has elapsed significantly, then that is a different story.

Appreciate that Alan thanks, but remember that I too may be having a senior moment

The crux of the matter is this, most new posters are struggling away at work trying to figure out a formula to make their spreadsheets work, frustrated by reading many pages of googled answers, not really knowing what formula they actually need, but trying a few, then a few more, nope nothing works. Then they come across Ex forum, read a few posts and think wow, these guys are good, they bite the bullet, sign up and in their frustration and despair, write a sympathetic plea of "PLEASE HELP ME !!" only to get a slapdown message saying "stop what you are doing dummy". I know mods don't mean it this way but this is what it must feel like to the OP.

So, would it not be better that MODS have the ability to change the TITLE themselves, and post a reply to the OP saying: "Welcome to the forum, I have changed the thread title to better represent your question. This change may provide a quicker solution, I would also suggest you post a sample worksheet with blah, blah, blah........."

Just a thought.

[6StringJazzer]

So, would it not be better that MODS have the ability to change the TITLE themselves, and post a reply to the OP saying: "Welcome to the forum, I have changed the thread title to better represent your question. This change may provide a quicker solution, I would also suggest you post a sample worksheet with blah, blah, blah........."

Actually, Mods do have this ability. I will do this on very rare occasion. Rare because it means I have to do someone else's thinking for them. I feel that if you're going to sign up for a forum and ask people to solve your problem for free, the least you can do is take three minutes to be conscious of the conventions of that community, which are readily available in the form of our rules. (I usually fix code tags for new posters because it's so easy to do and does not require analysis of their question to figure out what they are doing.)

I participate in other forums as well, Excel and otherwise. There is a very broad spectrum of moderation. For example, I quit actively participating in one particular Excel forum (which is the first one I joined) because the moderation was so extreme and punitive. And the board had many automatic controls in place to make it even worse. It would do scans of your thread title and your thread would be killed before it was even posted if you started your title with "How do I" or similar types of filters. It would also try to get you to do searches based on your title to see if your question was already addressed in another thread. There are rationales for all this, but the net result is that it discourages people from posting.

OTOH if we go to the other extreme, we get a free-for-all where I would not want to waste time trying to cherry pick the genuine questions that have some thought put into them that can actually be answered.

I already spend half my time on this forum deleting spam, fixing code tags, moving threads to appropriate forums, and responding to post reports. On top of it all, I am not going to try to read people's minds when the only effort they are willing to make is to write "Excel Problem! Please Help!!!"

[TMS]

would it not be better that MODS have the ability to change the TITLE themselves

The Mods do have the ability to change thread titles, add code tags, etc., and sometimes do. But I think it's a fine balance between helping and teaching. You have to bear in mind that ALL the people answering questions AND moderating are volunteering their time. If people aren't advised of the forum rules, and asked to abide by them, then they probably never will. I know it is a cause of frustration, we've all been there, but it's not difficult to read the rules and then try to follow them. And I'm pretty sure they are asked to read the rules when they sign up.

[shg]

"Welcome to the forum, I have changed the thread title to better represent your question."

Mods work for free. Taking five minutes to read forum rules is not an unreasonable price for getting free help, and the expectation that someone should clean up after your toileting is beyond presumptuous.

[BlindAlley]

Fair answers MOD chaps, my reply was not meant as a disrespect to what you guys actually do, hey, I participate on a British Army forum where the MODS PM death threats if you mess up (it is a non official army website btw )

[Doc.AElstein]

Hi BlindAlley

....
So, would it not be better that MODS have the ability to change the TITLE themselves, and post a reply to the OP saying: "Welcome to the forum, I have changed the thread title to better represent your question. This change may provide a quicker solution, I would also suggest you post a sample worksheet with blah, blah, blah........."
....

1_) They have those abilities, but I think one issue there is the extra work that the Moderators would have to do, and at Excel Forum they seem bogged down with enough considering how useless and absent the management appear to be.
_2) The rest of what you said is a good idea, and there is a “movement to get the canned replies” a bit less draconian... with canned replies for example..
http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-cooler/1132460-excel-forum-administration-rules-and-protocol-enforcement-4.html#post4349366
http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-cooler/1132460-excel-forum-administration-rules-and-protocol-enforcement.html
http://www.excelforum.com/showthread.php?t=1149554&page=5&p=4448693#post4448693
http://www.excelforum.com/suggestions-for-improvement/1154775-please-do-not-punish-warn-an-op-for-a-forum-software-problem.html
I use some toned down ones myself, amazing how a few similes can brighten it up http://www.excelforum.com/showthread.php?t=1101544&page=17#post4427948
If I ever get the time I will make a collection of the “tonned” down ones and drop them off in a suggestion for improvement post, for anyone else to take, use, modify as they chose.

At the end of the day I think it is all just down to the “active Moderators” at the time. There seem to be a lot more moderators than we typically see. The CurrentActiveGroup do not appear as hard as what I have heard previous active ones were..... .. Bollox?


Alan

[Tony Valko]

it means I have to do someone else's thinking for them.

Don't we already do that when we answer their questions?

[Tony Valko]

I already spend half my time on this forum deleting spam

It's not all negative criticism...

You guys do a great job in the spam department!

[alansidman]

I already spend half my time on this forum deleting spam, fixing code tags, moving threads to appropriate forums, and responding to post reports. On top of it all, I am not going to try to read people's minds when the only effort they are willing to make is to write "Excel Problem! Please Help!!!"

Well stated!

[6StringJazzer]

Here's a f'r'instance. Guy's in a big sweaty rush to get an answer. Bumps his own thread 6 times in 17 hours. Ignores shg's initial very polite request to update his title. Instead of spending a little effort on asking a coherent question (not just the title but his whole post) he's just screaming at us. Not endearing.
http://www.excelforum.com/excel-gene...-possible.html

Don't we already do that when we answer their questions?

I don't mind answering questions. I love <3 answering questions! What I don't do is ask their questions for them.

[Tony Valko]

Here's a f'r'instance.

I think he's the exception rather than the rule.

[jaslake]

@BlindAlley

I must admit, this has happened to me many times.

Seriously, how many times have you guys looked at an 'unanswered thread' worked on the issue involved for a few minutes then posted a reply with a suggested solution only to find that your answer is NOW underneath a standard MOD posting which means don't reply to this thread until the OP complies

[TMS]

I know this thread is a few years old, but my attention was drawn to it because I just got negative rep on it from Bobgiant. Didn't realise at first until I noticed my rep count had gone down one rather than up one. No big deal in the grand scheme of things. Seems odd when I’d just answered one of his recent threads (and possibly others).

[AliGW]

Sorry to hear this, Trevor - maybe a mistake on his part. Not sure what it has to do with infractions, though …

[TMS]

I have PM'd him and asked for his reason. So, we'll see. Hope it's a good one

[FDibbins]

Keep me posted, I can reverse it if it was an error

[TMS]

Thanks Ford, will do. No response yet.

[davesexcel]

Looking at the time line

1-OP starts thread with bad title
2-Canned reply says to fix the title same day
3-same day TMS says to fix the title
4-next day OP fixes title.
5-after 2 days, still no reply, OP posts that the title has been changed
6- 20 min later TMS replies.

Changes to subscribed threads do not include edited posts, nobody knew of the title change until OP mentions it in a new post.

Should the canned reply include to post back after the edit change?

[TMS]

https://www.excelforum.com/excel-for...-not-work.html

1-OP starts thread with bad title
2-Canned reply says to fix the title same day - from Moderator (Ali)
3-same day TMS says to fix the title - I had an answer but couldn't offer it without title being fixed
4-next day OP fixes title. - no visibility of this
5-after 2 days, still no reply, OP posts that the title has been changed - as you would expect
… it was actually 3 days 02-14-2022, 06:23 PM to 02-17-2022, 06:10 PM
6- 20 min later TMS replies.
7- no feedback, no thank you, no rep (fortunately) - no indication that reply was helpful

I also contributed to this thread:
https://www.excelforum.com/excel-for...reference.html

Again, no feedback to anyone, etc.

I won't be responding to any more threads from this user (Bobgiant)

[AliGW]

Trevor -the comment in the negative rep to you was "What is reputation?" I hope Ford will rectify this for you, as I think it's pretty clear he didn't know what he was doing.

He's opened duplicate threads that have had to be shut down and we know he has an alter ego (Bobtiny, I believe). If he continues in this haphazard fashion he will at the very least turn helpers off helping him and at worst get himself banned.

Should the canned reply include to post back after the edit change?

Probably. Easily added.

[TMS]

@Ali: I have contributed to seven threads from Bobgiant. In four of them, I was the last, or only, person to provide an answer. None of them have received a response from the OP. Not one of the 31 threads started by this user has been marked solved.

Bobtiny seems to have only one thread which was moved to the Water Cooler so has zero post count.

I won't be answering any more of his threads.

[AliGW]

I don't blame you. Sadly, he isn't the only one.

[Bobgiant]

@Ali: I have contributed to seven threads from Bobgiant. In four of them, I was the last, or only, person to provide an answer. None of them have received a response from the OP. Not one of the 31 threads started by this user has been marked solved.

Bobtiny seems to have only one thread which was moved to the Water Cooler so has zero post count.

I won't be answering any more of his threads.

That was mistake. I just gave you positive reputation now. How do we see reputation? what is reputation? how many reputation do I have?

[Bobgiant]

https://www.excelforum.com/suggestio...eputation.html

I searched but still can not see my own or other people's reputation?

[TMS]

@Bobgiant: thank you for rectifying your mistake. Much appreciated.

You can't see anyone's rep count but your own. The little green rectangles under the user's status give you an indication of rep performance but not the count. For example, you have one rectangle (the default) and I have quite a few. You don't increase your rep count unless you answer questions and people thank you.

If you click on the Members list, you can see the rankings. Again, no count. Every so often, the Administrator shares a list so we can see how we are doing.

[Bobgiant]

how do I see the message I sent? I go to my settings on the very top of this page and click sent items and it shows empty?

[Bobgiant]

@TMS how do I see my own count? can someone show me an image of where it is? I can not see mine at all.

In this post https://www.excelforum.com/the-water...on-points.html , that guy says click settings at top to see our own reputation count. And I clicked the settings and can not find it?

and what happen when we mark a thread as solved? Will the thread be closed? will someone get reputation when thread is marked as solved?

[Bobgiant]

what is Infractions? u gave infractions: 0/1(1) beside my post what does that mean?

[TMS]

It looks like this:

Attachment 769203

[FDibbins]

Bob only the recipient (or mods and admin) can see the comments made when giving a + or - rep.

Members accumulate a reputation (rep) by answering questions and then the OP clicks the Add Reputation" button in the bottom left corner of the POST (not the thread).

Each member is automatically given a certain "reputation points value" which increases as your own reputation level increases. This level is only visible to mods (I think) and admin.

Your rep level is 10, so every time you click Add Rep for someone, they get 10 points added to their Rep from you. (as an example, TMS gives 37 points for each rep because his own reputation is so high)

[FDibbins]

Trevor, I have changed the neg rep for you.

[Alf]

Members accumulate a reputation (rep) by answering questions and then the OP clicks the Add Reputation" button

Not only from OP's. Myself I've received reps from other forum members who was not active in that particular thread but liked my answer and I may give reps for a clever solution that teach me new ways of solving excel problems even if I did not post in that thread.

Alf

[AliGW]

That's true, Alf, and some OPs will thank everyone who offered a solution, not just the one they choose to adopt.

[AliGW]

Each member is automatically given a certain "reputation points value" which increases as your own reputation level increases. ... Your rep level is 10, so every time you click Add Rep for someone, they get 10 points added to their Rep from you.

Not sure this is quite right, Ford. Bob's rep level is 10, but his rep power is currently 0. My rep power is a bit lower than Trevor's, but my rep level is a bit higher, so I think rep power might be based on how much rep you GIVE, not how much you receive.

[TMS]

@Ford: Thanks for reversing the negative rep. Much appreciated.

Pretty sure I only lost 1 rep point for the negative rep. That said, it seems to have jumped a little from where I expected the reversal to put it. Whatever, I’m happy with the outcome, and Bob’s apology for his mistake.

[Alf]

and some OPs will thank everyone who offered a solution,

That's is very nice to know as I only way for me to know if the OP gave rep is to see if the "problem solver" comments on it in the thread.

Alf

[Glenn Kennedy]

I have had some discussions with bobgiant by PM (with TMS's knowledge). Hopefully this issue is now closed.

[TMS]

Thanks Glenn. As I said, I’m happy, issue resolved. Thanks for your, and Ford's, intervention, and also sourabhg98's very kind comments. All very much appreciated.

[FDibbins]

Not only from OP's. Myself I've received reps from other forum members who was not active in that particular thread but liked my answer and I may give reps for a clever solution that teach me new ways of solving excel problems even if I did not post in that thread.

Alf

Good point, thanks for adding that.
Yes, anyone can rep a member if they feel that their post deserves it - note that we dont permit frivolous repping just for the sake of inflating rep levels.

[FDibbins]

@Ford: ...Pretty sure I only lost 1 rep point for the negative rep. ...

Neg rep is only 1 point from him, but pos rep (which I assumed he meant) is worth 10 points, so all I did was correct the error.

[FDibbins]

Not sure this is quite right, Ford. Bob's rep level is 10, but his rep power is currently 0. My rep power is a bit lower than Trevor's, but my rep level is a bit higher, so I think rep power might be based on how much rep you GIVE, not how much you receive.

I think I got my terms mixed around lol...

Your rep POWER is 10, so every time you click Add Rep for someone, they get 10 points added to their Rep LEVEL from you. (as an example, TMS gives 37 points for each rep because his own reputation is so high)

There is more to it than just getting reps though. I asked for a breakdown from the TT a while back, which they provided, but I cant seem to find now. (if memory serves, it includes days as member, post count, and a bunch of others)

[AliGW]

And just on the theme of OPs getting solutions and then vanishing, I have had two hit and runs this morning within half an hour of each other (and I know that both saw the solutions I'd given before disappearing). Why do some people find it so hard to acknowledge help???

[6StringJazzer]

Ali, that was a question that I asked in the water cooler when I was a shiny new member years ago.

[AliGW]

It's a sad aspect of human nature that I fail to understand. It takes just seconds to say thanks.

[TMS]

I've noticed a lot. Sometimes I chase it. Sometimes I can't be bothered.

[AliGW]

I often do, especially when I sense that the OP is being particularly demanding.

[The_Snook]

Hey all, I've just joined the negative rep club! The member has thanked me, but presumably selected 'disapprove' by mistake? #ChubbyFingers

What's the correct approach to get this rectified? (Thread link is here) From reading previous posts it looks like it might be one for Ford?

There's no rush or issue if it doesn't get changed, there are obviously bigger things going on in the world right now.

Regards,

Snook

[TMS]

@Snook: suggest you PM Ford. There's no indication the OP has any issue with anything you said.

[The_Snook]

Cheers TMS, I've just dropped him a msg.

[6StringJazzer]

Hey all, I've just joined the negative rep club! The member has thanked me, but presumably selected 'disapprove' by mistake?

I can see the rep but I can't see whether it was positive or negative or associated rep points. I can edit the comment but not the rep points. So maybe Ford indeed has to address it.

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[FDibbins]

Cheers TMS, I've just dropped him a msg.

I have reversed the neg rep