So Many Unanswered Threads

[Dennis7849]

I am irritated by this situation. I've been looking into how many posts get no replies. There are so many unanswered threads that I find it sickening.

I feel this way because I want to help these people with there issues but many of these issues can not be resolved within a few minutes. Most easy to answer issues get replies(answers). It's the ones that require a significant amount of time(or coding) that go unanswered.

The Idea:
Why can't we offer additional support to these people in the following manner;
________When an unanswered thread is older than 24 hours, relax your forum rule concerning "Paid For" services.

This would do two very positive things. It would bring some additional support to the people that are currently getting ignored. It would also allow for service providers like myself to provide the needed services.

Thank you for your consideration of this.

[Mordred]

People don't come to forums like this so that they can pay for services. As for so many unanswered threads, there has been a significant brain drain from this forum in recent months. While there are some very smart people still answering threads here, they have become much busier due to the fact of the brain drain so even they have their limitations.

[Mallycat]

there has been a significant brain drain from this forum in recent months.

I agree this is the contributing issue. I know you have read my thread about changing the posting dialogue, and you would have read my views about moderation. I actually left this forum for quite a long time because I thought it was over moderated and unnecessarily punitive in the way the forum (ie the moderators) dealt with new users who "broke the rules". I have to say it is A LOT better now, but it could be even better still. I think my suggestion on the other thread will help remove the 'confrontation' and that will in turn lead to stemming the brain drain.

Regarding this thread about paid for services, I personally have no issue with people (ie helpers) who provide their time for free being able to solict their services in a controlled manner. Here is a good example. This thread is really interesting to me, but it is not a trivial task. I could probably knock something up really decent in an hour or so (including testing, follow up etc), but frankly I see this task as beyond a 'freebie'. The author of the thread even acknowledges the effort invovled. So I would do it for $100, but not for free. Now I am not saying that I would like to see the forum deteriorate into a bidding war for freelance programmers, but I agree with the OP here that it would be a useful vehicle to connect service providers who contribute their time to the forum, to be able to connect to potential customers. I have to admit I don't know what that would look like, but I am interested in other people's thoughts

[DGagnon]

I'm kind of against soliciting for work in the general forums, but prehaps another forum where people with more complex tasks could post askign for a bid to complete the task. This would give people an easy and central location to try to get some complicated or maybe just more involved tasks done while keeping it out of the general forms. But i think this begins to go against the foundation of this forum, which is free help for everyone. I have worked on a few threads where i end up spending well over 3 hours working on a task, but i admit that the times i want to devote this much time for free, are rare.

[FDibbins]

The biggest benifit of a forum like this, is that members can come here for help, and to increase their excel (and other) skills. If it turns into a market place for people to sell their "products", it would become little more than a "technical" ebay. Its strength lies in the members willingness to FREELY contribute their time and skills to help those less knowledgable than themselves.

I do agree that some of the posts here would require more than just a "quick fix", but how you would "manage" allocating those posts to a "pay here" kind of forum, i couldnt say

well, thats my 2 cents worth lol

[Mordred]

It's the "competing" for services that would be a big risk imo and on a couple counts. First, sub par Excelers would be able to underbid and not back up their creations, giving the site a bad reputation. The help that is available here would probably reduce to just few people answering questions and if that happened, this wouldn't be a thriving site like it is now. I get paid to do what I do at work and these types of forums are where I can continue to learn while helping others. The good thing about not competing for pay is non competing code styles. I can personally handle my own regarding vba but if people paid here I would never be able to compete against so many others and I would outright stop coming to this forum. In saying all this, there have been many times where people do come here and other sites wanting their work completely done for them with almost expectant attitudes. These types of people should be charged but I won't be the one to do it. I am a firm believer in open source code. You all make some valid points though and I think it is good to have this thread.

[Mallycat]

I agree with the three posts above. Sometimes it is easier to think things through with some dialogue. I agree it would be hard to control, and the risks are far greater than the benefits. I also get paid at work(of course) and come here for the same reasons as Mordred. I actually don't need the money - it is more of a principle that some things are worth more than "nothing".

Is there any issue with someone sending a PM to a person with an old unresolved post for the purpose of solicitation? Ie keep it off the forum. Not that I am interested myself generally speaking, but just out of interest.

[arlu1201]

Right now the option of offering paid services is not available in excelforum. But it could be a part of it sometime soon.

Paid services need to be rightly routed and everything should work seamlessly without causing any negative effect on the forum.

[JosephP]

OzGrid already does this-there's a separate forum for people who want to pay. Most people don't want to-they just want a lot for free sometimes. allowing solicitation by pm is a terrible idea imo (basically spamming) and any paid forum needs controls as to who can answer or you'll get a bad rep. maybe I'm cynical but this just sounds like someone wanting a free source of prospects.

[arlu1201]

I agree with Joseph. If anything has to be done, it should have a positive impact on the site, not bring it down further.

[Mallycat]

maybe I'm cynical but this just sounds like someone wanting a free source of prospects.

I'm not sure if that was directed at me. Like I said, I don't need the money, but was simply participating in the discussion.

[arlu1201]

MallyCat,

I dont think it has been directed at you.

[JosephP]

it was aimed at the asker who has on a few occasions previously suggested he should be paid for answers

[royUK]

At the moment I would be reluctant to see paid for services - if the answers don't work then the Forum will be blamed. If it happens then I would suggest restricting the opportunity to answer such questions to members' of proven ability, not someone who intimates they are capable of providing solutions. As it is I doubt may people would use such a service.

As for the Forum being over moderated, it certainly went from strength to strength once rules, which are really only informing how to ask questions, were implemented.

[Simon Lloyd]

For what it's worth here are my thoughts:
Dennis7849 wants to make money from whatever knowledge he has and use these forums as a free ready made market place for his indulgence, if his skills aren't up to a standard that the user expects or requires and money has changed hands, then the user, if they could get no recourse from Dennis7849, would firstly complain to admin for allowing it and secondly probably warn people off using the forum because of profiteers in "helpers" disguise are only supplying either half a solution to entice you to pay to get the rest, some solicitation to that fashion or simply dont have the aptitude to provide the service they were expecting.

@Dennis7849 if you want to sell your services then market yourself properly, you've a very young website with no ranking at the moment, put some effort in to getting it noticed...etc, give other help and tips..etc on your site, maybe downloadable examples with instructions on how to modify it, providing people with sound examples can be a testimony to your skills! - but please dont feel that these types of forums are your free hunting grounds, people come to these forums for FREE help and advice, helpers come to these forums because they enjoy giving FREE help and advice, people who NEED to get something done and is beyond the free help that others are willing to give will then start searching the net for "paid for" services, hence the reason for building your website.

The fact that you even posted this thread irked me, you had absoultely no right to ask such a question or even expect it to be considered and i'd ask you to refrain in the future, if you'd joined my forum and carried on this behaviour you'd be enjoying the solitude of a ban.

I'm sure (just like i would be) the owners here would not appreciate you alienating their members by soliciting your services to them through this medium.

@Arlette/Staff this thread seems to discuss forum rules too, i had a thread deleted where i was openly discussing forum rules and some words from staff saying that forum rules cannot be discussed in public, can i ask whether this is now not the case? or can we make sure that all members are treated equally and the rules enforced uniformly throughout the board?

[royUK]

As far as I am aware discussing Forum rules should be no problem. Touting for business is in my opinion

[Dennis7849]

Why is it so wrong to help people that are asking for help? Do the reasons for unanswered threads matter? The fact is: there are so many. Many of the users here are NOT getting the help they are asking for. If you don't believe me that's fine. All you need to do is look at the QUANTITY of unanswered threads.

I'm being truthful. Yes, I would like a little more Excel programming business. However, I also enjoy helping others at no charge. I always have.

The difference that I see and the opportunity I see is;
___Some people need more help then they are currently getting in these forums(as evident by the unanswered threads). Many of these are not getting the answers they need because they require significant efforts. So, is it better to ignore these people or is it better to offer them a choice of "paid for" service? The forum can always post a disclaimer about not being responsible for bad service providers and recommend caution in the selection of a service provider. You may want to consider providing a service provider reviews section.

Apparently, I've said some things in this forum that upset some of the key-players. I apologize for for whatever offended you guys. If you do not want me to contribute, just say so. Right now I feel that I am not welcome here and that all of my posts need to be "Approved/Censored" before I post them. I do have issues with the forum rules, especially the "unwritten" rules.

[royUK]

There is no great history of unanswered posts here. problems only arose when the board was allegedly upgraded driving away many of our top talent.

If you have issues with the Forum Rules then you know the answer. If you are referring to being told not to tout for business then the number of people who attempt that are few, hence no need to write rules about ii. You seem to want to make money from the forum's popularity. As Simon quite rightly said, put examples up to demonstrate your ability.

If you enjoy helping for free then what's the problem? In the past you have been reprimanded for suggesting you can offer paid help. As Simon & I said, if people offer paid solutions on the Forum that aren't up to scratch then the Forum would be held responsible.

[xladept]

I find that I peruse the forum and some problems that I copy and code for but don't post, I can't find again.

Any suggestions?

[arlu1201]

xladept,

You have posted in the wrong thread. You can start a thread of your own. Also, i suggest you re-word your post, your question is not very clear.

[arlu1201]

If any of the OPs want to offer a fee for a faster solution, they will do so by themselves. I have seen a couple of such threads coming in.

[Dennis7849]

Just within the past year, there are over 5000 unanswered threads. I assume the reporting mech is correct. The "as of any date" reporting tops out at 10,000 unanswered threads. I think that is too round of a number to be accurate. So if you guys feel that thousands of unanswered threads is not an issue and those users are just out of luck, just say so. I do not see why we can not offer them more options.

The desire to provide only free help is noble and I do not have a problem if that is the way it will stay. Just keep in mind, some users will want to take disproportional advantage of that.

[Marcol]

Dennis, in the last month there are c385 unanswered posts, you could make a start on these (unpaid), and see how you get on.

I think your enthusiasm for this task will quickly diminish, there is usually a good, clear, reason for them being unanswered.

As said by others this site had a good answering rate until recently, but if you were to apply yourself, the rate might rise again.

[arlu1201]

I guess you can put your excel skills to use in this forum by replying to the users (for free). Many people have learnt a lot from this site by just contributing to it freely and learning from others' replies.

We surely need more people to reply to others and help them out. Why not jump onto the bandwagon?

[Dennis7849]

When I am allowed by the moderators here, I do spend much time helping others from the unanswered threads.

The original suggestion still stands. It is so sad that so many people asking for help are getting ignored when they could be helped. Is there no "middle ground" related to this subject?

[Andrew-R]

A couple of years ago I had the misfortune to become unemployed and while I was job hunting I thought it would be worthwhile to join a web-site where developers can bid for small jobs, including many Excel jobs.

I can honestly say it was an utterly hopeless experience - the day rate that people were willing to pay was tiny and there was always someone willing to undercut even stupidly low quotes. Lord knows what the quality of the final product was like.

Anyway, I'd hate to see this forum end up anything like that.

Also, from my experience of moderating a forum - with a tiny membership compared to this one - any commercial activity creates vast amounts of work for moderators. There will be an endless stream of people complaining that the haven't been paid for work, an equally endless queue of people saying that what has been delivered wasn't what they paid for, or that the developer is now ignoring their e-mails asking for bug-fixes, or that what they got sent was a virus, or that it's deleted valuable company data and they'd now like to sue somebody for $10 million in lost business, etc.

Quite honestly I think we're well off out of it.

I wouldn't mind a section where people who were willing to pay for work could post their project requirements and contact details and all of the commercial arrangements were handled off-forum, but I don't think it offers anything that those wanting to buy or sell couldn't get from other web-sites.

The list of unanswered threads doesn't bother me - if the original posters haven't bothered bumping their thread then I doubt they care that much. Look at how many threads we get where somebody does answer, but asks for more information, or a workbook and then nothing is ever forthcoming. I presume a lot of people find their answers elsewhere, or decide not to bother, or learn to work Google properly, or maybe sober up and think better of it.

[Marcol]

It is so sad that so many people asking for help are getting ignored when they could be helped.

To repeat, if you are "so sad", then go help, others do as time permits!

[FDibbins]

Simon, i couldnt have expressed my opinions better, you hit the nail right on the head with your comments, and i agree with you completely

[Mordred]

When I am allowed by the moderators here, I do spend much time helping others from the unanswered threads.

The original suggestion still stands. It is so sad that so many people asking for help are getting ignored when they could be helped. Is there no "middle ground" related to this subject?

I wonder if you have actually peeked in on some of these unanswered threads. Many times (in my limited experience) requirements are very poorly stated and are therefore passed over by the many volunteers because they don't want to put in the time. If you wish to make money at this (and kudos to you if you do) then market yourself as Simon suggested. Free help forums are not the place to do that because they wouldn't be free anymore. Imo, there are no middle grounds between free and not free.

[Simon Lloyd]

Apparently, I've said some things in this forum that upset some of the key-players. I apologize for for whatever offended you guys. If you do not want me to contribute, just say so. Right now I feel that I am not welcome here and that all of my posts need to be "Approved/Censored" before I post them. I do have issues with the forum rules, especially the "unwritten" rules.

Dennis, you're wrong, you are very welcome, what isn't is the use of the forum for personal commercial gain, this is what most people are upset about and the fact that you wont accept that, as Arlette said, if they want to give you a donation because they think you're worth it then they will do that, we've all pretty much been offered in the past (although i've always turned it down because i came to give free help knowingly ), just settle in and answer what you can or feel you can without doing yourself an injustice because you would have charged for x amount of work, if you feel you cant give a full solution without charging then simply don't answer.

The number of unanswered posts is minute compared to the number of posts per month, people, as you know will post in several forums and wait for the first to answer and then never revisit the other forums (or those particular posts).

As for the unwritten rules, i'm afraid we're all falling foul of that as they are no longer transparant and uniform, for that i can sympathise with you. If you feel you cant abide by the written ones there are other forums that dont have rules, this isn't meant to sound like im telling you to get lost!, far from it, im just saying you dont need to suffer the rules if you dont want to.

What do you say we dont broach the subject of charging this forums members for further help? if it's out of your scope of free help then let it remain unanswered.

[daddylonglegs]

Firstly I don't have a problem with Dennis raising this here, if we have a forum called "Suggestions for Improvement" then it seems to me that such a suggestion is entirely legitimate, if that isn't the case then the the boundaries for possible "improvements" should be more clearly delineated.

Having said that, I don't agree with that suggestion. Ozgrid have tried with very patchy results I think.

As Andrew-R says, there will always be somebody willing to undercut even the lowest rates - having free advice is the closest guarantee of impartial, best advice IMO

I make no apology for quoting his reply again in full - excellent insight, thanks Andrew

A couple of years ago I had the misfortune to become unemployed and while I was job hunting I thought it would be worthwhile to join a web-site where developers can bid for small jobs, including many Excel jobs.

I can honestly say it was an utterly hopeless experience - the day rate that people were willing to pay was tiny and there was always someone willing to undercut even stupidly low quotes. Lord knows what the quality of the final product was like.

Anyway, I'd hate to see this forum end up anything like that.

Also, from my experience of moderating a forum - with a tiny membership compared to this one - any commercial activity creates vast amounts of work for moderators. There will be an endless stream of people complaining that the haven't been paid for work, an equally endless queue of people saying that what has been delivered wasn't what they paid for, or that the developer is now ignoring their e-mails asking for bug-fixes, or that what they got sent was a virus, or that it's deleted valuable company data and they'd now like to sue somebody for $10 million in lost business, etc.

Quite honestly I think we're well off out of it.

I wouldn't mind a section where people who were willing to pay for work could post their project requirements and contact details and all of the commercial arrangements were handled off-forum, but I don't think it offers anything that those wanting to buy or sell couldn't get from other web-sites.

The list of unanswered threads doesn't bother me - if the original posters haven't bothered bumping their thread then I doubt they care that much. Look at how many threads we get where somebody does answer, but asks for more information, or a workbook and then nothing is ever forthcoming. I presume a lot of people find their answers elsewhere, or decide not to bother, or learn to work Google properly, or maybe sober up and think better of it.

[Mallycat]

Many times (in my limited experience) [unanswered thread] requirements are very poorly stated and are therefore passed over by the many volunteers...

This is a very good point. I think in a lot of cases, people join and post a question on a whim, and then don't even come back for the answer. We should not feel bad about this. I think the reality is that if the post is not in the last 24 hours, it is unlikely to get focus. If people really want help, they will come back again and ask "can anyone help me with this" or similar. I am a member at Whirlpool, and they have a policy on bumping that I think is quite good.

http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/wp_threadbumping

[kakapoo]

I see references to Simon. I cannot see a post by Simon. But then, my comment to this conversation got deleted, too. I'm sure neither of us directly linked to another site. I did not even name any other sites. But still, my post got culled.

Welcome to a wonderful world of censorship.

[john55]

kakapoo, see Simon's post #15

[royUK]

Simon's posts are there?

I suggest that if you investigate the unanswered posts the majority are simply unanswerable because of the lack of information and/or poor explanation.

[Marcol]

Also there are "unanswered" threads, that do have answers!

Seems that the post counter issue hasn't been resolved.

[Simon Lloyd]

I see references to Simon. I cannot see a post by Simon. But then, my comment to this conversation got deleted, too. I'm sure neither of us directly linked to another site. I did not even name any other sites. But still, my post got culled.

Welcome to a wonderful world of censorship.

Posts #15, #30 & #37

[davesexcel]

Why is it so wrong to help people that are asking for help? Do the reasons for unanswered threads matter? The fact is: there are so many. Many of the users here are NOT getting the help they are asking for. If you don't believe me that's fine. All you need to do is look at the QUANTITY of unanswered threads.

I'm being truthful. Yes, I would like a little more Excel programming business. However, I also enjoy helping others at no charge. I always have.

The difference that I see and the opportunity I see is;
___Some people need more help then they are currently getting in these forums(as evident by the unanswered threads). Many of these are not getting the answers they need because they require significant efforts. So, is it better to ignore these people or is it better to offer them a choice of "paid for" service? The forum can always post a disclaimer about not being responsible for bad service providers and recommend caution in the selection of a service provider. You may want to consider providing a service provider reviews section.

Apparently, I've said some things in this forum that upset some of the key-players. I apologize for for whatever offended you guys. If you do not want me to contribute, just say so. Right now I feel that I am not welcome here and that all of my posts need to be "Approved/Censored" before I post them. I do have issues with the forum rules, especially the "unwritten" rules.

If you see unanswered threads that you can answer, then answer them, or if you decide you don't want to answer them, them don't.
Why make such a big fuss about it?
You know this forum is based on volunteers, so volunteer your talent or don't.

[royUK]

Hundreds of members have given their free help & moderators provided free help & time to build this Forum up. Occasionally we get someone come along who alleges they are an Excel expert & they can make money from this hard work. We don't have a hidden rule about this because it happens infrequently, we don't like it or allow it. We refers to moderators & has been shown by this Thread the majority of established members. A warning is usually issued & if ignored a life time ban. Dennis I believe you were warned 7 ignored the warnings. You were given a short term ban.

Dave has summarised this above, so your choices are clear.

[vlady]

Hello,
just for thoughts...

we are not requested here to create an entire workbook for them,
they just ask if they encounter some problems that beyond their capability/ability that they haven't or couldn't pull out the solution.

If you love doing excel you'll probably want to answer more un-solved threads.

And by the way i also want to get paid, anyone out there?? click here: http://www.blackpencilproject.org/
or read my signature..

[JBeaucaire]

I just want to pipe in briefly... there are a lot of words being used to say the same things over and over...

1) The forum isn't intended for commercial solicitation. Well-reasoned arguments about why it should have been heard and for now nothing has changed
2) Help where you can, don't grumble about #1 when you can't
3) Secretly soliticing via PM will likely lead to being banned, don't do it. (see #1 & #2)

I hope this doesn't sound condescending, it's not meant to, but I understand how it might.... [ParentingLectureMode]Having your argument heard and not agreed with, thus not getting your way, and not being all grumbly about it afterward is a skill we all must develop.[\ParentingLectureMode]

[Domski]

I'll give Dennis his due he's nothing if not persistent in trying to get some business from this place!

Dom

[Mallycat]

I got a head of steam last weekend and cleared out a bunch of unanswered threads (no more than 24 hours old). I subscribed to these threads (something I haven't done much before) and to my surprise, there are sooo many first responses that just go ignored. It makes me wonder about the depth of commitment of some people who join the forum and ask a question. I reaslise people can get distracted, however I must admit I am now less likely to invest a lot of effort in a reply unless I have some level of comfort that the user will actually come back to read the reply

[Simon Lloyd]

@Dennis7849, you gave me negative rep for voicing the opinions of what is clearly so many of the regular users here???

Thread: So Many Unanswered...
I think you missed a point I was making and you are so critical over my suggestion as to discourage me from helping anyone in these forums. I am insulted by your words.

Thats clearly sad!

[royUK]

Despite what he so righteously says about helping others dennis does not seem to have posted anywhere but this Thread since starting it.

[abousetta]

I think developers (especially Excel developers) have to realize that the bubble has burst. It's no longer a lucritive business per say unless you are well-known. You now have to compete with tons of FREE websites, amateur developers, developers from under-developed countries, etc. which are willing to accept a price/ hour that most knowledgeable developers would not accept. I have worked with developers in the past and the prices they request range markedly, as does their level of expertise. From time to time I look at the pay sites and see what is offered and realized that most of it can be accomplished by just investing some time learning the basics, dividing the project into several parts and asking around for help. This must be a nighmare for anyone who has built a career around code developing. Having said that, if EF decides to go down that path then a new forum/subforum should be developed apart from the main forum. I agree that this service should be limited to the top experts to bid on (e.g. moderators/ hand-picked members) so that the quality of the service can be guareenteed. Rules would have to be set in place for deliverables, payment, etc. In the end, I see it as a lost venture that might have worked 10 years ago, but not today. Best wishes, and condolences, to anyone who builds their livelihood on the theory of making money from coding.

[Mallycat]

......there are sooo many first responses that just go ignored.

Further to this comment I made earlier, and at the risk of this being lost deep in this thread, I have a suggestion. How about changing the default settings for new users, so that they auto subscribe to all threads they create. This would mean that the people that invest their time in helping theses first time users, will be more likely to have their efforts add value.

[arlu1201]

Mallycat,

This has already been introduced since 10 days now. The default subscription settings for all new registrations is now auto subscription.

[Mallycat]

Ok, thanks

[AlanF51MS]

I think that Andrew-R has the right idea. If I needed a problem solved and was willing to pay I would be willing to post my requirements in a special section.
The board could set up guidelines to who could reply to threads to keep someone like me who just got here from being able to sell my services or even reply to that section. And there should be some fee to the board for putting two parties together or posting in that section or being verified to be able to reply.
As a business owner when I get behind the eight ball I have in the past asked for and paid for help.

A-

[pike]

why not delete unanswered threads after nine days?

[Mordred]

@Abousetta,

Best wishes, and condolences, to anyone who builds their livelihood on the theory of making money from coding.

I disagree but only partly. I agree with regards to Office products and specifically Excel but I disagree when it comes to applications development and areas such as database development. While there are free forums that support the latter and obviously the former, there is still a lot of room for independent "consultant" people in the coding world. I see that even within the utilities corporation that I work for.

As for Excel, if I had faith in the querying abilities of this forum, I would find some threads where people wanted whole projects built from scratch while coming here for "help". Those types of scenarios could be tossed to a developer for hire in a forum made specifically for that. Aside from that though, I don't think that a pay as you go forum would attract that many visitors.

[royUK]

Amazingly despite his wanting to help, Dennis has completely disappeared. He doesn't seem to have posted since this thread, what a loss!