Intellectual Property

[domgilberto]

I've made a spreadsheet.

Nothing was agreed in writing, but verbally a financial incentive was preliminarily discussed under the basis that I produce a working spreadsheet for the office to use.

I did just that and how, I am being paid but reluctantly due to other politics. I want to take this spreadsheet down as I completed it during my personal time and am not happy under the recent conversation I've had for this co. to use it anymore.

Is it the co. intellectual property, or mine? I made it in my spare time but it is being used as part of an important process and would throw the spanner in the works if removed...

What is everyone's opinion? How can I safe guard myself, or is it better to raise the politics with someone higher up?

[adyteo]

check your contract or company's policy: while being employed by it, you may not work for other companies and whatever you do for the company you work for it, even in your own time, could be their property.

[TMS]

Gut reaction: suck it up. You have nothing in writing, you've been paid (for whatever reason), and you provided the spreadsheet to/for your employer. If you developed it in your own time, more fool you. That was your choice and you have (probably) improved your own knowledge, skills and ability as a result.

Having made it available to the company, I'm not sure how the conversation would go. Suspect that it could be career limiting, if only with your current employer.

Being realistic, developing a spreadsheet solution isn't just about creating a spreadsheet. It's about trying to make it bullet proof, maintainable and supportable ... like any other piece of software. In my experience, you make a nice spreadsheet, you hand it over and they break it. Adding rows, columns, copying and pasting over Data Validation, etc.

Regarding Intellectual Property: I'd guess it's theirs. You made it at their instigation, for them to use, by their staff, with their data. Probably fairly specific to their needs. So if you claim the IP is yours, what are you going to do with it? Excel is not a secure environment so there isn't much you can do to stop people going behind the scenes.

Probably not the answer you wanted.

Regards, TMS

[davesexcel]

I did just that and how, I am being paid but reluctantly due to other politics

Does this mean you were paid?

[TMS]

I am temporary here!

I can see that not being the case much longer if you continue in the same vein. Sounds more like a personality clash than anything. And, if you're going to go around making unflattering comments about the management of the company where you are only a temporary employee, I can't see that getting better.

Take your money and zip it would be my best suggestion.

I'm going to ask for this thread to be moderated as the language you have used should have been picked up by the censor bot(s)

Regards, TMS

[JBeaucaire]

Thread has been reopened, as this is the Water Cooler where any can discuss any topics they wish as long as someone is willing to discuss it with them. As per previous moderation, you will need to keep the commentary within this thread PG-rated.

Thanks... carry on.

[Crooza]

My 5c worth.

1. It looks like you already got paid for it
2. Sounds like you only want to remove it to hurt them, not for any professional reason
3. You still have access to it as well so it's not like you haven't benefited as well or can't continue to benefit
4. Will burning bridges really be a smart professional thing to do?

[JBeaucaire]

Bossing people around, often with condescending language, is sometimes the only power some low-level managers have in their life, so they wield that power in the form of talking harshly to subordinates such as yourself. Truth is, I don't believe you will be able to fix that at all, nor should you try.

As a temp, you represent the lowest of low in the hierarchy of the company. As suggested earlier, attempts to "correct" any of your superiors will most likely lead to your rapid exit.

My recommendation is:
1) Bide your time until all 20 hours have been paid into your checks
2) Consider that a win
3) Get out, don't wait for your unhappiness to spill into your work and give them cause to force you out, find a new posting ASAP and go there.

Good luck.

[domgilberto]

I have been dismissed from my job (I have another job lined up already). It was merely personal and have complained to HR Manager about this.

No written contract was ever drawn up around this excel spread-sheet. I had done this merely to demonstrate further use of my employment and was in-fact potentially being offered a full-time placement there(which I would have declined as I did not want it). It's a large corporation but an intimate office where-by (and foolishly) I thought his word was good. I was dismissed because "he found his job menial and repetitive" - personally (which this has also been echoed by other members and my agency) I think he may have felt threatened about what good I had done (not to sound arrogant) in the past 2 months against what he has not done over the past 6 he has been there.

Irrelevant of these opinions, no formally written contract had ever been drafted or signed surrounding the logistics, time spent, or general concept or design (aesthetically + formulas) on this spread-sheet. I was something I had done in my personal time of which is now incorporated into their processes and used on a daily basis. It documents and demonstrates savings in the 10's of thousands per any given year.

Based upon these facts above^ (it's all heavily password protected and hidden - they do not have a clue about excel), is it actually there intellectual property... The content (or data) is inputted by the users which is discretion. It does not use or facilitate the use of any other private or confidential documents anywhere else. It's purely record keeping - like a tallying...

I have not been paid the verbally agreed 20 hours (which I know is my problem that it was not a written contract) either. Despite that, would one say that this is there's now and I have not a leg to stand on?

[TMS]

I have been dismissed from my job

I have to say, you didn't need binoculars to see that coming.

No written contract was ever drawn up around this excel spread-sheet.

Irrelevant of these opinions, no formally written contract had ever been drafted or signed surrounding the logistics, time spent, or general concept or design (aesthetically + formulas) on this spread-sheet.

is it actually there intellectual property...

Hard to say. Are you planning on taking it to court? Personally, I don't think you'd stand much chance, but just my opinion. When it comes down to it, you've used your knowledge, skills and experience to produce a spreadsheet that they are now using. No-one can take that away from you. If you want to develop something similar, for someone else, there's nothing to stop you. It's just a spreadsheet. As you have made it difficult for them to enhance or improve it, they could argue that it is unusable ... and, as a consequence, taken the concept and produced something new and better. To be honest, no matter how well you've protected it, I wouldn't rely on Excel's security to stop anyone breaking in to it. (If you wish, send me a copy and I'll put it to the test).

I have quite a few clients. None of their requirements has been exactly the same as anyone else's. But obviously, some routines can be re-used and/or tweaked to meet a specific need. The solution that I have provided is theirs, for their use. Once I've handed it over, they can do with it what they wish. If they choose to let someone else use it, I don't get royalties ... I'm sure that doesn't happen

When I answer questions on the forum, I don't try to copyright my solutions, no matter how clever I may think they are. Ho hum.

Tough about the money. But maybe you should have tried a little harder to get on with the manager. Again, my opinion is that a manager manages people, and so the less he does himself, the better a manager he is. He is there to delegate to and develop his people ... and bask in their success. Sounds as though you might have made it hard for him to do that.

Good luck in your next role. Learn from the experience. And don't do anything you're not contracted to do

Regards, TMS

[domgilberto]

No I have no intention of taking it to court. I did get along with the manager, I had a great relationship with everyone!

I completely disagree with what you've said here though:

"But maybe you should have tried a little harder to get on with the manager. Again, my opinion is that a manager manages people, and so the less he does himself, the better a manager he is. He is there to delegate to and develop his people ... and bask in their success. Sounds as though you might have made it hard for him to do that."

If you're a manager and that is what you do, then shame on you my friend. This manager did not only have none of my computer, phone or programs setup (on days 1 and 2 - I had set them up by using my initiative and calling IT) but provided me absolutely zero support like the rest of the team. He did not manage anything other than just about waking up in the morning and getting to work. He is officially the worst manager I have ever had the displeasure of working beneath. He wanted us to streamline our processes (which I did) of which he has no idea on how to use SAP, let alone the in-house software that was overpriced and crap. Honestly, I am cooperative, respectful and hard working. To top it all off I have witnessed 4 employees leave in 2 months. He has been there for 7 months and 8 members of staff (5 left, 3 dismissed) have been turned over in that time... This is the reason why I have written to HR. He possesses no social skills whatsoever and at the best of times can be very demotivating. The team depended on him like a dog depends on a blind woman...

So with all do respect, you do not know the entire picture and I do not find it fair (as I was actually avoiding talking about this all together) that you're making these conclusions about me:

"I have to say, you didn't need a binocular to see that coming".

Beside all this, I just want to be paid for it and they can have it and the job. It may well get overturned and the job would be offered back to me anyway (being reviewed by HR manager). He even said had I not sent the letter to HR he would have reinstated my position. The grounds in which I was let go was because I found my job "menial and repetitive". It's all just BS and something I do not deserve...

None the less, I merely wanted to find out if it is their intellectual property, or is it mine?

(p.s you may well crack the passwords - they do not have a clue about excel in the slightest - no one does in there).

[romperstomper]

Unless there's an IP lawyer hanging around here, I doubt you'll find out for sure. Seems a fairly irrelevant question though, all things considered.

[TMS]

You're absolutely right, I don't know you at all. And I apologise if I have reached some wrong conclusions about you ... or, at least, that you have interpreted what I have said as a slight to you. That was not my intention. I can only go off the basis of this thread, and the tone and content of your comments. So, I may have got it wrong.

I was a manager, once. Now I work for myself and I no longer have that pleasure or pain. What I described was what I thought a good manager should do, not how your manager was in practice. A good manager does not necessarily have to have hands on technical skills, although I consider it an advantage if they do. It facilitates technical conversations about technical issues and solutions. Keeping with the (interesting) dog analogy, why keep a dog and bark yourself?

Good luck with whatever you do. I think I shall draw a line at this point, as I suspect that we will not share the same views or interpretation of how this story goes.

Regards, TMS