Banner regarding moderation by non-moderators

New Notice for: TMS
Recently, it has become clear that some members (especially newer members) have been confused by "mixed messages" coming from non-Moderators. They are unclear how to react to such requests. Accordingly, we are now asking all members NOT to attempt to moderate threads. From now on, that will be done by forum Moderators only.We continue to encourage the reporting of posts/threads where cross-posting has not been declared, where measures to bypass sheet security are requested, or where abusive language is being used. Generally speaking, it it NOT necessary to report poor titles, spam, lack of code tags, etc, as these are easily spotted by forum Moderators.From now on, those posts made by non-Mods that are attempting to carry out Moderation activities will be deleted.

While the message is clear, this new banner presents a couple of issues:

First, from a practical point of view, it cannot be dismissed and, as a result, takes up half the screen on my iPad … and don't mention what it does on my mobile.

Second, it seems to present mixed messages to senior members. My understanding was that, as senior members, we were expected to assist in the policing of the forum. That meant advising users to correct any failure to comply with forum rules and not answering threads with any such failures.

I've always tried to take a gentle approach with this … maybe why I didn’t enjoy being a moderator … and provide a solution (where I could) BUT also advise the user to fix the thread title, code tags, or whatever. Most did, perhaps not all.

What are we expected to do now? Not comply with the "responsibilities" of a senior member, or just walk away from any thread that we consider needs moderation?

Hi, Trevor!

The expectation now is that senior members (experts and gurus) do NOT try to moderate in any way, so leave threads that require moderation to us to deal with. If that moderation doesn't happen in timely fashion, you could prompt us with a report, but at least three of us are here a fair amount of the time, so not much will get missed, I suspect.

The expectations of senior members will be rewritten in due course to cover this change, but at the moment we have a situation where there seem to be far too many chiefs taking vastly different approaches (confusing for regular members), and new members whose threads are being incorrectly 'blocked' by non-mods who cannot change titles, add code tags or add missing links for them (as per the forum rules), which is also confusing.

Yes, we know about the banner - it will become dismissable after an initial period, but we need to make sure that the message gets through.

Fair enough.

The bottom line is: report posts that deserve to be reported. Mods will (generally) pick up the rest.

What we are trying to stop is non-mods taking it upon THEMSELVES to "block" posts ("no help to be offered", etc, etc) especially for new/inexperienced/occasional members and those for whom English is not their native language.

@Glenn: when I used moderation canned replies, I always removed the "No help to be offered until this moderation request has been fulfilled" wording. As I said, gentle approach.

I usually reported any duplicate threads if I became aware of them.

Trevor - we aren't saying that everybody has been doing things incorrectly or badly. However, something had to be done to (a) stop the confusion and (b) standardise the approach.

Thank you for all you have done and continue to do to support us.

You may have done so... others did not. The inappropriate use of "NH2BO" messages is on the increase. I have spent too much time calming ruffled feathers in recent times.

IMHO... answer it. We'll pick up the code "transgression".

2 in the first instance, I think, if it's an established member who should know the rule. If the code tags are not sorted by a mod in timely fashion (within an hour or two?), then report the post.

LOL! Division in the ranks ... Go with Glenn's appraisal.

Again, fair enough. But it seems a big step back from approach adopted in the past.

I would want to answer the thread.

My feeling is, basically, that this is meant to be a HELP forum, not a Boot Camp. So help folks with their problems. If there's something rather naughty going on (abuse/security/X-posting).. keep on reporting it. Otherwise, we'll sort it out.

It is, Trevor, because that approach has in recent times become confusing to the regular membership.

We've had multiple queries about this, and as Glenn pointed out, feathers have been ruffled by members not understanding why their threads have been blocked by other regular members. It has all become a little bit messy, so we're trying to rein it in.

I don't know any other forum where members other than mods and admins are encouraged to participate in moderation,so I guess we're coming into line, really.

I'm in a few FB groups (unrelated to Excel) and am appalled by the nastiness of some of the posts there. We're relatively fortunate to have little of that here. But maybe we're quicker to ban nuisance members than others. Most people that come here do so 'cos they want help (or want TO help) and that's what we want to encourage.

If the occasional set of code tags are missing... who's going to die as a result?

I still think I'm far too liberal to be a Mod (rebellion is in the genes...)

My feeling is, basically, that this is meant to be a HELP forum, not a Boot Camp. So help folks with their problems.

Amen to that!

I think there's still room for some of our rules to be relaxed, but as a mod, I feel I have to play it by the book as long as they exist in their current format. It's about taking a unified approach (which has been agreed by consensus amongst the team).

It does seem curious, last evening I (thought, don't remember the exact wording I used) posted a simple admonition - not nasty or anything - for the OP to consider their post title as it wasn't very descriptive of their problem, and of course in keeping with the new "rule" it was removed - which understand AND I don't object to.

But it leaves me curious as to what to do with a post title violation. Like "I need help with a formula!" and it turns out it is a simple fix to a formula.
Do I pass it by or even though I know it is a rule #1 violation do I give them the simple fix?
If I give them the fix and a mod drops by and gives them the "NH2BO" am I in violation for offering an answer?
If the mod posts the rule violation note but they already have the answer will the prompt about the post title have any effect?

Oh, and BTW, not trying to pick nits but there is a typo in the message...
Generally speaking, it it NOT necessary to report poor titles, spam, lack of code tags, etc, as these are easily spotted by forum Moderators.From now on, those posts made by non-Mods that are attempting to carry out Moderation activities will be deleted.

1. Spelling. I wrote the text, and am awful at proofreading.

2. Virtually no-one reports threads with poor titles. I don't anticipate much change there. If the poster already has an answer, I tend to remind them to give it more thought next time round.

But it leaves me curious as to what to do with a post title violation. Like "I need help with a formula!" and it turns out it is a simple fix to a formula.
Do I pass it by or even though I know it is a rule #1 violation do I give them the simple fix?
If I give them the fix and a mod drops by and gives them the "NH2BO" am I in violation for offering an answer?

If it's a new member, answer it. Don't mention the rule - we will sort that out. If it's a member who should be expected to know the rule by now, don't answer it (Glenn might advise differently), but if you do, and it's before the moderation note, then no, you aren't in violation of the rules. If you post at the same time as us and it drops in after the mod note, we'll suppress it with no consequences to you until the issue is fixed.

Two good answers, thanks for the clarifications.

FWIW... if a regular posts a thread with a poor title, and I were you, I'd still answer it

But if you have a social conscience, you might want to suggest nicely that they change it before the "Title Police" come along and nab them!!

And we're into the realms of advice and guidance rather than rules … who's going to bid to be Prime Minister next?

Both banners should have a 'I have read - do not show again' box.
Typical of today's 'pandering to the minority moaners, never mind the majority of helpers'.
Purely the opinions of a senior citizen fed-up with this P.C. society.

Maybe remove the banner, move this thread to the Vet's forum, and open a sticky in the Vet's forum with the new advice. Update as it evolves.

As I think has been said, the banner will mean nothing to most people asking questions, especially for the first time.

The plan (AFAIK) is to post in TWC and in Vet's forum and (soon) make the banner dismissable. However, as poor old Ford is all on his own these days, it might take him a bit of time to do it all!!

It's akin to text-speak (I thought obviously) for "No Help To Be Offered"

Pepe, you need to get down with the kids. However, when I do that, these days, I need help to get back up.

@Trevor

This message is going to appear there in due course as a sticky (Ford will do this), but that won't reach Forum Experts.

There are simply too many vets and experts to message them all separately (Ford tells us that there are no group messaging options, so it would be horribly onerous).

Surely all the senior members have had time to see the banner by now. Can't we get rid of it ... or at least have the option to dismiss it (for those of who have already seen it dozens, if not hundreds, of times)?