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Cannot find circular reference

  1. #1
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    Cannot find circular reference

    Hi,
    I have a large, complicated workbook. Recently, the circular-reference alert started to appear.

    I unhided all sheets and checked one-by-one in the Formula tab / Error Checking. The 'Circular reference' is greyed-out everywhere.

    Theoretically, there might be a problem with named ranges, I have plenty of them (alhough I don't recall fiddling with them recently).

    I tried tracking the problem down by deleting portions of the workbook and seeing when the warning stops popping-up. But the problem is that the alert only pops-up here nad there. I don't have any control over how often it shows up. So I can never say wheather my latest move removed the problem, or wheather I'm just being granted some more time before the alert comes back. So this makes it really ineffective given that the workbook is large and quite slow.

    Thanks for any ideas or suggestions!

  2. #2
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    Re: Cannot find circular reference

    Post the file, remove any sensitivie data.
    Regards
    Special-K

    Ensure you describe your problem clearly, I have little time available to solve these problems and do not appreciate numerous changes to them.

  3. #3
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    Re: Cannot find circular reference

    Unfortunately, everything is sensitive in that file, since I work in a bank. And also, uploading anything anywhere is blocked...

  4. #4
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    Re: Cannot find circular reference

    The circular reference alert will tell you where it is happening

  5. #5
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    Re: Cannot find circular reference

    Unfortunately, it won't:
    "Microsof Excel cannot calculate a formula. There is a circular reference in an open workbook, but the references that cause it cannot be listed for you. Try editing the last formula you entered or removing it with the Undo command."

  6. #6
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    Re: Cannot find circular reference

    I don't know that there is much we can do without being able to see the file. I don't see that warning very often, but when I do see it, it is usually because the circular reference is across several tabs in the workbook or even across multiple workbooks. Perhaps an OFFSET() or INDIRECT() function is involved in the circular reference, making it difficult for Excel to identify where the circular reference is. Circular references that are "intermittent" like you describe might be due to IF() functions, where only one of the two output formulas contains the circular reference. Strategies I might use:

    1) Turn on iteration, which will allow Excel to attempt to resolve the circular reference by computing it multiple times. In my version of Excel, I can usually see which cells are part of a circular reference as I can see them changing throughout the calculation process.
    2) Once I have identified a cell that is part of the circular logic, then I can study that cell to see what it references and what references it.
    3) If I can identify a "key" cell in the circular reference, then I might replace its current formula with the value it currently holds (if the cell currently resolves to 2, I will enter 2 in that cell to replace the formula). See what that does to the circular reference warning and calculation.
    4) Keep working and trying these and other strategies until I find the problem.

    I realize it may not be very helpful, but I'm not sure what more we can do without seeing the workbook.
    Quote Originally Posted by shg
    Mathematics is the native language of the natural world. Just trying to become literate.

  7. #7
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    Re: Cannot find circular reference

    Thank you, MrShorty,
    I'll try your suggestion 1) . At the very least, I can get rid of that warning which makes working with the workbook almost impossible.
    I'm afraid, it won't be easy to identify the changing cell for me, since I have some 40+ sheets with 150+ charts/tables and a large datasheet with some 5 ths rows with many oracle-connection-based tables and pivot tables and additional calculations. So I don't have a clue where to look for the change and cannot therefore proceed with steps 2) and 3).
    Is there perhaps any way to see which cells are affected by the running iteration? I'd also expect the calculation/changes to happen too fast to be noticed anywhere.
    I think I use the OFFSET at couple of places, so I'll check that out.

  8. #8
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    Re: Cannot find circular reference

    Is there perhaps any way to see which cells are affected by the running iteration?
    that was the whole point of suggestion 1 -- if any of the cell values are changing with each iteration, you can hopefully see them changing. It might be easier if you set max iterations to 1 while you are in there. then you can press F9 to go to calculate the next iteration and it might be easier to see the change.

    As a "practice", you might look at the Barnsley Fern spreadsheet here: https://www.excelforum.com/tips-and-...eferences.html This spreadsheet intentionally uses circular references (and random numbers) to generate Barnsley Fern fractal pattern. It should allow you to test to see how you can see cell's changing during iterative calculation events. Again, if you set max iteration to 1, then you should be able to step through each iteration and see it change by pressing F9.

    I have some 40+ sheets with 150+ charts/tables and a large datasheet with some 5 ths rows with many oracle-connection-based tables and pivot tables and additional calculations.
    If at all possible, I would shrink this down. Charts are not part of circular calculations, so maybe delete them. Pivot tables do not contain any formulas, so they cannot participate in circular references (except maybe as source data for the formulas that are part of the circular reference). I am not familiar with how Oracle and Excel work together, but I might look at that process and see if it is even possible for the data importation step to be a part of the circular reference.

    If it isn't obvious, you probably want to save the original workbook and not touch that file, but do all of this on copies of the original. In the event you end up in a dead end, you want to be able to go back to the beginning.

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