when and how do you give up with an OP

I generally like helping people but when: students ask for their work to be done with no effort on their part o;r maintaining the solution to a business question is clearly beyond the capabilities of the OP, I tend to want to finish up and tell them that I think it is inappropriate or dangerous to help them more.

If you do this how do you handle it?

I send them a PM. I won't show people how to do something in VBA when they can't write a simple formula, or help provide a solution when their data is so badly organized that any attempt is a hack to accommodate their design. In both cases, I feel that doing what they asked does more to hinder their progress than advance it.

I won't provide solutions to homework, etc-maybe a point in the right direction.

I won't provide VBA solutions where it is not necessary,just asked for because the OP's knowledge of basic Excel usage is lacking.

Also,like Shg if a workbook is badly designed then & the OP won't change it,then I lose interest.

I often like to make some response to the messy ones. Just to help them understand why they are unlikely to get a reply and I often do that as a PM.

With some of the threads I ask for a bit of information about the business. If it is something where they should and could pay for the work or training I might say so (as a PM (usually)) but if it looks like a small business just trying to make things a bit better I will go the extra mile.

Just occaisionally I am quite pointed in my reply but conscious that others may take a different view.



.

Roy's hit the nail on the head pretty much.

One of the most frustrating things I come across is someone insisting that they cannot possibly change the way they have decided they want to do something.

I'm afraid I can be guilty of just drifting away from those threads sometimes.

Dom

I've tried so many times to tell OPs that they can do things more simple & offered to help,but why you should we spend more time because they won't see the sense. Most say the "boss" won't allow change, I have never had an employer that when shown a better way to use Excel who wasn't delighted.

Originally Posted by royUK

I have never had an employer that when shown a better way to use Excel who wasn't delighted.

Yes, but that requires confidence that the changes will be better.

I have only had one job where the client said "make it work but don't really change it". I eplained that if they wanted the job to actually work it needed a wholesale restructuring. When they didn't agree I politely suggested that we part then and there.

That caused them some surprise.

As a newbie to the forum I had thought of asking the same question.

My opinion so far

The second "client" appears, drop it!
"the big guys out there"....... etc, etc..... ditto!

Taking all points into consideration......but for the greater God than yours' or mine out there........go thee and I,

How do I do it politely?

i just take the ****!

Originally Posted by darkyam

It also helps to keep a list, either mentally or written down, of OPs who have wasted your time or been rude before.

I've often wondered if it was just me that did that. I have one for each forum I post in - some very short, some not so...

Originally Posted by romperstomper

I've often wondered if it was just me that did that. I have one for each forum I post in - some very short, some not so...

Who do I have to appeal to about getting my name removed from them?

Dom

The Holder of the List is amenable to a beer or two...
I'm not sure I've ever seen you post a question though!

Luckily it doesn't happen very often

Dom

Classic example here

ah the power of an admins enter key!

FWIW, I tend to (rightly or wrongly) avoid most post from our indian friends, it's not so much the culture issue where they state "You will give me the solution" or "Give me the code"...etc, i can get by that in MOST cases, but i do find most of the questions asked are kind of "Helpdesk" type questions which i am sure they are charging someone a pretty penny for YOUR solution, you also find with these questions that the goal posts are never set, answer their intial query and they hit you with the next in their series of questions which enevitably lead to a point a mile away from where you started.

In fact i would go as far as to say i "hate" giving solutions where you know the op has zero understanding but have simply been relaying or plugging your soultion in to their supposed situation and all you get is a "It didn't work....." and then they change tack!

Oooh!, don't get me started i could write a dissertation on this subject!

I've noticed that as well Simon. Also,I don't see why we should provide what amounts to a full blown project,some of these requests are more involved than somepaid for projects that i have had

Originally Posted by royUK

I've noticed that as well Simon. Also,I don't see why we should provide what amounts to a full blown project,some of these requests are more involved than somepaid for projects that i have had

Thats what i was looking to say....PROJECTS, yes they have a project that they are completing for someone and getting us to construct and complete it for them.

Originally Posted by Simon Lloyd

FWIW, I tend to (rightly or wrongly) avoid most post from our indian friends, it's not so much the culture issue where they state "You will give me the solution" or "Give me the code"...etc, i can get by that in MOST cases, but i do find most of the questions asked are kind of "Helpdesk" type questions which i am sure they are charging someone a pretty penny for YOUR solution, you also find with these questions that the goal posts are never set, answer their intial query and they hit you with the next in their series of questions which enevitably lead to a point a mile away from where you started.

I don't like to assume that is always the case but it does often come across that way. If it's a quick answer I'll give it but otherwise I do tend to avoid them. I'll accept a lot of the time people come to forum's to help them out with work but there is a definite feeling that you are doing someone's job for them in a lot of these posts.

I remember when Mr Excel changed its visibility on Google etc suddenly there was an explosion of questions from India and you got the feeling it had suddenly become a helpdesk extension.

Dom

cor simon's gone really really green now!

Originally Posted by Simon Lloyd

FWIW, I tend to (rightly or wrongly) avoid most post from our indian friends.............most of the questions asked are kind of "Helpdesk" type questions

In fact i would go as far as to say i "hate" giving solutions where you know the op has zero understanding

Agree with all that. I regularly ask about the business context other as a PM or on a thread post for two reasons. One it help to get the right solution and because it can give a sense of whether I want to help. If the OP doesn't understand the business context then I assume it is helpdesk or homework.


Are there any stats of posts from organisations?

Originally Posted by tony h

Agree with all that. I regularly ask about the business context other as a PM or on a thread post for two reasons. One it help to get the right solution and because it can give a sense of whether I want to help. If the OP doesn't understand the business context then I assume it is helpdesk or homework.


Are there any stats of posts from organisations?

Tony, of course you have to have a defense mechanism for yourself but for me (personally) that particular scope is a little narrow as it only checks for people at either end of the Excel learning curve not the folk who have picked up a few phrases......etc and then band them about in their questions only to find under scrutiny they don't even undestand the context of the phrase, most op's before they start to be guided by those of us who have been there, believe they have a good grasp of Excel and don't like to admit they know very little.

hi all,

Edit: Ooopps, I've just spotted how old the thread is. Oh well, read on... /end edit

Originally Posted by tony h

I often like to make some response to the messy ones. Just to help them understand why they are unlikely to get a reply and I often do that as a PM.
With some of the threads I ask for a bit of information about the business. If it is something where they should and could pay for the work or training I might say so (as a PM (usually)) but if it looks like a small business just trying to make things a bit better I will go the extra mile.
Just occaisionally I am quite pointed in my reply but conscious that others may take a different view.

hmmm, good point, perhaps I should have pm'd for the below thread...

Originally Posted by broro183

... to a more experienced eye the spreadsheet looks painfully messy ie it is not designed as well as it could be*.

My initial phrasing was a lot more pointed, but I walked away & then came back & rephrased before submitting the post. What made it so challenging for me was

Originally Posted by th3spankst3r

...I've written a database in MS Access, and part of the database exports information to Excel. I have split my workload with a coworker because he is a genius when it comes to Excel, so I left the Excel formatting and programming up to him.

I know I'm still learning and I don't want to be arrogant.However, I really hope the person's coworker is open to learning too because opening the Report sheet in the file made me recoil away from my laptop screen!

Try looking at the file - go on, I dare you!
Roy's already seen it, but for anyone else, if you don't recoil, perhaps you can help the OP out?

My internal dialog usually starts (& quickly finishes) along the lines of "how can they get better if no one points them in the right direction?" but in this case, there were a few days where I thought "someone else will take this on, please... please... someone...? anyone...? *sigh* - it looks like I'm up!".

-----------
I've never really considered business size before (but may factor that in now) & usually base my effort on their initial/ongoing attempts or, if I'm feeling generous - on their appreciation & acknowledgement of my efforts.

Rob

Try looking at the file - go on, I dare you!

I did. I physically bounced backwards when I saw the columns.

I Like this one
http://www.excelforum.com/excel-prog...n-columns.html
Has not responded since.

Sometimes an OP will post a question, but not come back for a day or two, a week or a month later, notice their question has not been answered, then get upset about it.